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Lignose Research - Data and Observations

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Discussion starter · #81 ·
Thanks for the number, Dave - I've added it and a bunch of others recently to the list.

It's now been over a year since I last calculated (in post #36) the percentage breakdown of the list with respect to each model, so here are the latest results (I realize the percentages only add up to 99; there must be some rounding error or else my count is slightly off. If someone spots the error, let me know):

Model 2 - 33 out of 156, or 21%
Model 2A - 60 out of 156, or 38%
Model 3 - 7 out of 156, or 4%
Model 3A - 56 out of 156, or 36%


I should note that I am here (and henceforth) including the Bergmann pistols in the calculation.

It's interesting to observe that the 3As have gained, percentage-wise, on the 2As since last year's calculation, bringing the two "Einhand" models nearly equal to each other in terms of scarcity.
 
#91 ·
Lignose Model 3A

I stumbled upon your forum while researching Lignose and decided to provide data on my 3A. It was acquired by my father during WWII and has been in the family ever since. Before passing it along to me he field stripped it for safety. I have attached photos in its stripped condition including the parts that were in an envelope. I suspect all the parts are there, but would be interested to know if anything is missing. I am at a lost as to how to reassemble the pistol. Note serial number 23497 has what appears an over stamp involving the 9.

Jack C
 

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Discussion starter · #92 · (Edited)
Jack,

Thanks very much for contributing data on your 3A, and I'm very sorry it took so long for someone to respond to this post. I always appreciate it when people take the time and trouble to share their pieces when it's easier simply to sit back and enjoy what others have posted.

Your 3A looks to be in outstanding condition. Although it is regrettable that it was disassembled beyond simple field stripping (puzzled as to why this was done???), it appears that all parts are present - at least from what I can see. In photo 5, I see the magazine, the spring for the safety lever, the trigger, the trigger pin, the trigger spring, the little screw that attaches the safety spring to the frame (under the right grip) the trigger bar, the two grip screws and the removable trigger guard (what I call the "cocking piece" in my serial number table).

I've never taken apart a Lignose beyond routine field stripping, but putting this one back in working order should not be too difficult.

I would first remove both grip panels.

Then I would remove the slide and barrel. To do this, retract the slide fully to cock the hammer (if it is not already). Lock the slide back using the safety/holdopen lever and rotate the barrel about 90 degree clockwise (if you are facing the muzzle). Then, hold the slide back while you disengage the holdopen lever and gently allow the slide (and barrel in its rotated orientation) to travel forward while pulling upwards. At a certain point the rear of the slide will lift up off the frame and the slide/barrel assembly can be moved forward off the frame the rest of the way. Set the slide and barrel aside along with the recoil spring and guide rod that will have come free as well during this operation.

After doing this, I would install the safety spring into its recess using the tiny screw (right side of the grip frame, under where the grip panel would be), being sure the end of the manual safety lever is properly engaged in the spring slot.

I would then place the little plunger at the end of the trigger spring into the drilled hole in the rear of the trigger and slide the trigger into place, being sure to place the other end of the trigger spring into what I imagine must be a pocket in the frame designed to receive it (again, I have never personally done this; this is simply how I picture it.). The pin hole in the trigger would then be aligned with the hole in the frame and the trigger pin would be drifted into place. I believe the trigger bar should be able to be installed after the trigger is in place, but I am not certain. In any event, the hooked end of the trigger bar should slip into a slot in the rear of the trigger and the little "hook" should slip over a transverse pin of some sort mounted in rear of trigger.

At this point, the gun should be back in a normal field stripped condition.

Given how long it's been since your post, I am wondering if perhaps this post is too late. Anyway, let me know if you got this far and if so, I'll relate the instructions for normal assembly from field stripped state.
 
#93 ·
Lignose Model 2

Bob,

Congratulations on your research. It's the best I've found online, by far.

I inherited this Lignose Model 2 S/N 9072 from my father (1890-1985).
He lived in Chicago since the Great Depression and as far as I know he acquired it there, I have no details on how. He moved to Europe in the late '50s and it has not been properly stored since, which explains it's condition.

I have a few WESTERN .25 AUTO (FMJ) rounds that were with it. It works fine, although I haven't fired it the last decade or so.

The barrel does not have a serial number on it, only the proof mark (see photos).


I am not sure on what to do to maintain/clean it and any advise is welcomed.

John
 
Discussion starter · #94 ·
Hi John,

Great to see another Lignose come out of the woodwork! Too bad the finish has suffered but to my eyes it still presents well.

All I would do as far as cleaning and maintenance is to field strip and lightly lubricate it. Are you familiar with the basic disassembly? If not, visit the article below (some great Lignose photos and research there as well):

http://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/Lignose3/lignose3.html

By the way, the serial number on the barrel will be located in such a place that it cannot be seen until the gun is field stripped and the barrel removed from the slide (I'm surmising that you have examined only the portions of the barrel visible with the gun assembled). I am pretty sure that after you take the gun down you will find the barrel to be marked with the full serial number.
 
#95 ·
Bob,

you were right, the barrel is stamped and the numbers match.

I had figured out the last time I had it fired how to field strip it. But I had forgotten a last step, which is not in the page you listed.
You have to rotate the barrel clockwise 180 degrees, for the "thread" to clear the firing pin, in order to remove it from the slide.

The right side photo I posted does not do it justice. The browning that shows at the front is bad lighting.
There are no rust marks on it with the exception of the grip screws. The right side grip screw shows signs of failed removal.
Should I look in to removing them and get rid of the rust on them? If yes, what's the best way to go about it?

I am not a gun collector and my knowledge is very limited but I like this little pistol.
I don't think that any efforts to preserve/restore it are wasted.

It would be fun to fire this pistol again. It has spent more than a dozen years in a trunk, it deserves an outing.
Do you see any reasons against it? Any precautions I should take, other than standard weapon safety?

Regards,
John
 
Discussion starter · #96 ·
Hi John,

Nope, I see no reason not to fire this one. If it were a real creme puff I probably would advise against it simply because it would be shame to risk breaking or losing a part (a remote likelihood given the robust construction of Lignoses, but still...). But with this one I would go ahead and have a blast.

From what I can see of the right side grip screw, I would not attempt removal. The slot appears hopelessly stripped and little would be gained from wrestling with it. The left one looks okay, though. After removal I would scrub it with a toothbrush to remove any loose rust then just oil it. Incidentally I never use any metal brushes or "wools" of any kind - even if made from brass or some other softer-than-steel metal - on any part of an older gun other than the bore. I find the toothbrush is a fantastic tool for detail cleaning. This and some sharpened wooden picks made from tough hardwoods (such as maple and bamboo) are all the cleaning implements I have found necessary (plus the usual patches, oil, etc.).
 
#97 · (Edited)
Bergmann SN# 3139- with loaded/cocked pin on slide!


I recently came across and purchased this unfortunate Bergman-it is now a parts kit only as there was no receiver/frame with the purchase, nor was the seller knowledgable to its whereabouts when pressed. Serial 3139, and it IS marked "MADE IN GERMANY" on the same side as the serial number, if you are unable to read it in the picts. Even better (or more tragic?), it has the cocked/loaded indicator on the slide, not the frame/receiver. Per unblinking eye's Ed Buffaloe, this means it may be a prototype. He has one configured like this and apparently a guy in Sweeden has non-blued prototype slide like this as well. The barel and slide are numbered and match. It is not just a mock up- this has seen wear, has matching numbered parts, is blued, and must have been very recently parted from its frame/receiver for all the other parts, including magazine and grips, to have survived together. And someone else who was bidding knew it was rare as well, or I wouldn't have been run up to $200 in the auction for a gun that will never work. I see no notch on the side of the slide like the einhande's, so it must have belonged to a 2 or 3 (not "a" for einhande- no notch on the slide for the cocker).

I also have a complete Bergman 2, and a blue'd cocker Lignose 2a to follow on future posts. The Bergman 2 is serial number 6348, which makes it the youngest/highest serial number-surviving known Bergman slide/grip combo prior to going lignose. And better yet, it also has a chambered round indicator.

What I am looking for, however, is the Bergmann model 2 that my grandfather brought back from WWII (taken off a kid who was trying to shoot him). It was a model 2, and had a holster that was unlike any I have seen posted here, and is likely aftermarket. It was a very small and minimal holster with no straps, brown if I recall, with a leather strip wrapping arounds it's edge like a whip-stitch, in an off color. Although i cant see all the holster on the photos, it appears similar in style as that seen in the early Bergman 3 with the wooden grips on the Unblinking Eye page (serial #54). Sold by my grandfather, Leroy McCarty circa '93 in Hartley Iowa to a local dealer. If anyone cand find it, I would immediately recognize it for the holster (and rarity), and would make its return to the family worth your while.
 
#98 · (Edited)
Bergmann 2, serial #6348.
Bergmann 2. serial number 6348, which makes it one of the last prior to Lignose buying Bergmann- the largest (most young?) surviving serial number by a few hundred according to unblinking eye or this record keeping. It has the loaded chamber indicator
 
#99 · (Edited)
Lignose 2A 27150

Here is a Lignose 2A I recently picked up on GB, serial number 27150. Looks MINT, with 100% bluing, and appears unfired, including magazine, except for some very unfortunate cracked grips. I happen to have some spare vintage grips that are in very good shape and aren't reproduction, but I can't decide if I should put them on instead... Thoughts? Blue cocker

Would be interested in any brass 2a or 3a's if anyone is willing to part with them, especially if with box, or holster, and particularly interested in finding a long lost family bergmann as mentioned in prior post- send Picts if you have them!

Thanks to all those for putting this together- this and Unblinking Eye are the best sources I've seen!
 

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Discussion starter · #100 ·
Matthew, thank you for your outstanding contributions to the thread! You have provided lots of great information.

The Bergmann data and photos are especially valued, as these pistols are seldom seen. Every reported example helps piece together the big picture on these early guns, and it seems like quite a tapestry from what I've seen so far. There are variations in grip material and style, in the company markings (or lack of), the serial number location and the cocking indicator as well as the export markings ("Germany" or "Made in Germany") and their location.

I share your sorrow at the fate of No. 3139. It is terribly painful to see that one of these precision devices was so unappreciated at some point in its history. I am glad you have rescued what remains and hope you keep everything together. As you pointed out, this gun's slide-mounted cocking indicator makes it a rare and desirable variation and only serves to aggravate the already tragic injustice that was done to it. At least there is still enough left of the gun for us to learn from it and we can be thankful for that, I guess.

Pistol no. 6348 is a fantastic find! It narrows the transition gap between the Bergmann and Lignose pistols to fewer than 600 guns.

I will keep my eyes peeled for your grandfather's Bergmann model 2 with the distinctive holster. Thanks again for all your help with the data compilation.
 
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