Does this Vis 35 look refinished to you?

operation_saturn · May 26, 2016

up for auction as "non professionally refinished" but I'm skeptical and was curious what you guys thought

lisik · May 27, 2016

it does not look refinished.

Squadron303 · May 27, 2016

Very difficult to say, and far from certain, but it appear original to me. Any chance of close up pictures?

Yoebuff · May 27, 2016

I agree with squadron. Its hard to say in a pic, due to lighting etc. however, what I see is wear consistent with a lot of use after the finish was put on. on the trigger, the safety, the rounded rear of the slide and front of muzzle consistent with holster wear. the pics aren't close enough to see the stamps etc but based on what I see it would have to have been refinished years ago and then the gun used or its original. I'm leaning towards original finish but again, without closeup pics its difficult.

Curly1 · May 27, 2016

If that is a refinish the guy who did it is a master.

Anthony Vanderlinden · May 27, 2016

I am inclined to say YES. Refinishing does not mean buffing. I have restored a few pieces that were seriously messed up and aged them chemically afterwards. I recognize the look. Also looks like it may have been an altered salt blue instead of a rust blue. The wear patterns were put in on the parts before reassembly. The wear pattern on the trigger (left side) is inconsistent with the wear you will see on a VIS. Artificially aging parts like this, takes little time, 30 minutes is more than sufficient for a pistol like this VIS.

I can not be certain of course, but I see some signs that make me suspicious.
Anthony

andrew.r · May 27, 2016

It seems to have had a great deal of de-cocking done and much less trigger time. Notice the wear to the lower part of the decocker that does not have much contact in real use.

I'd pass on this one.

operation_saturn · May 27, 2016

Thanks for the responses guys. The gun was put up for auction by Rock Island and a lot of their WW2 guns are described as "NPRF" without actually having been refinished - I think they do this just to cover liability in the case that it was in the past. Here's a P38 in the lot right after the vis, also described as refinished:

I think the most suspicious bit, as mentioned by Andrew, is that the lower part of the decocker has so much wear. I'm wondering if it might just be catching the light... I agree better photos would be nice.Anyway this interests me because I'm new to these guns and would like to be better informed in bidding on one.

Anthony Vanderlinden · May 27, 2016

operation_saturn said:
Thanks for the responses guys. The gun was put up for auction by Rock Island and a lot of their WW2 guns are described as "NPRF" without actually having been refinished - I think they do this just to cover liability in the case that it was in the past. Here's a P38 in the lot right after the vis, also described as refinished:
View attachment 222025

I think the most suspicious bit, as mentioned by Andrew, is that the lower part of the decocker has so much wear. I'm wondering if it might just be catching the light... I agree better photos would be nice.Anyway this interests me because I'm new to these guns and would like to be better informed in bidding on one.

A piece like this does not merit the risk and cost of dealing with Rock Island.

operation_saturn · May 27, 2016

Using this as an exercise in trying to educate myself, I submit these examples as counter arguments

In regards to the wear on the trigger, here is a similar wear pattern on an original pre war wis:
http://i.imgur.com/438jF1C.jpg

and here is an example of more decocking done than trigger time
http://i.imgur.com/dLLfnAA.jpg

Anthony Vanderlinden · May 27, 2016

operation_saturn said:
Using this as an exercise in trying to educate myself, I submit these examples as counter arguments

In regards to the wear on the trigger, here is a similar wear pattern on an original pre war wis:
http://i.imgur.com/438jF1C.jpg

and here is an example of more decocking done than trigger time
http://i.imgur.com/dLLfnAA.jpg

In your link you can see the correct and typical horizontal wear pattern from travel on the trigger. That wear pattern is not even remotely the same in the pistol in question. There is no horizontal wear, looks more like a buff mark.

Anthony

operation_saturn · May 27, 2016

Anthony Vanderlinden said:
A piece like this does not merit the risk and cost of dealing with Rock Island.

Thanks for the advice. I don't really know where to look for these guns though.. everything I've seen on gunbroker has seemed way overpriced

Yoebuff · May 28, 2016

Anthony Vanderlinden said:
In your link you can see the correct and typical horizontal wear pattern from travel on the trigger. That wear pattern is not even remotely the same in the pistol in question. There is no horizontal wear, looks more like a buff mark.

Anthony

Anthony....you got a good eye. that is exactly why I said in my original post we would need to closer pics to be sure. your absolutely right in the second set of pics you really see the wear from trigger horizontally. your correct in that is what scares me with Rock Island. they get premium prices and it is an "AS-IS" auction. they dont give a 3 day inspection.

Squadron303 · May 28, 2016

Speaking of triggers, doesn't the R side look like a riveted trigger? Round black dot right in the middle? The earlies riveted trigger that Leszek has booked is in the 1/U serial number range.

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operation_saturn · May 28, 2016

Yoebuff said:
Anthony....you got a good eye. that is exactly why I said in my original post we would need to closer pics to be sure. your absolutely right in the second set of pics you really see the wear from trigger horizontally. your correct in that is what scares me with Rock Island. they get premium prices and it is an "AS-IS" auction. they dont give a 3 day inspection.

There appears to be horizontal wear on the R side trigger though. Ultimately none of this can be conclusive without higher resolution pics. I just wonder why someone who went through the trouble of trying to make a refinish on the slide & frame appear original would even touch the trigger. It doesn't really make sense.

operation_saturn · May 28, 2016

I appreciate you guys entertaining me here. Just curious if you think this gun is refinished as well? The trigger shows horizontal wear but you can see the same seemingly unnatural wear on the decocker as in my original post

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/attac.../forum/attachments/world-firearms/27853d1234795292-polish-vis-35-a-000_0005.jpg

Anthony Vanderlinden · May 28, 2016

operation_saturn said:
I appreciate you guys entertaining me here. Just curious if you think this gun is refinished as well? The trigger shows horizontal wear but you can see the same seemingly unnatural wear on the decocker as in my original post

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/attac.../forum/attachments/world-firearms/27853d1234795292-polish-vis-35-a-000_0005.jpg

I see no signs of refinishing.

MGMike · Jun 10, 2016

It may also have slathered down with cold blue without polishing, and there's no easy way to get it off without further damage.

M

Does this Vis 35 look refinished to you?

operation_saturn

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