[automan1]

Serial No. 6, 4" barrel, all parts stamped '6'. Wood bottom magazine
Erfurt inspection stamped (no serial No.). Now for the strange markings.
No test proofs or inspection stamps visible or evident.
'A' stamped on right side of receiver in the test proof stamp area.
'A' stamped on the ejector in the inspection stamp area.
'A' stamped on the front toggle link in the inspection stamp area.
'A' stamped on the rear toggle link in the inspection stamp area.
'A' stamped on the extractor in the inspection stamp area.
'A' stamped on the front of the trigger guard.
Rear right side of receiver stamped '3' in a box & '20' in a box.
Hold-open installed & stamped.
I was told this was done on a small quantity at the start of production by a person who supposedly knew about Lugers.
What have I got, has anyone have any information on this Erfurt Luger?
Bill



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[Dwight Gruber]

Bill,

According to the German Army marking instructions as translated by Görtz & Bryans "German Small Arms Markings" the capital letter A, representing the word "Ausschuss," meaning rejected part or scrap, was to be stamped in place of the appropriate inspectors' mark to designate reject parts. It sounds like you have a Luger made up of mostly reject parts.

One might WAG speculate that this gun was made up for practice or instructional purposes. No idea what the numbers in a a box might portend.

It sounds like you have a remarkable and unique Luger, I'm sure I'm not the only person who is anxious to see photos.

--Dwight

 

[automan1]

Dwight
Your information is very interesting, I thought I would be laughed at. As for photos I am going
to try to use my camera for detailed shots of this Erfurt Luger and if they turn out I will have
to get someone to tell me how to put them on this site as I never did this on the computer.
Bill

 

[Heinrich]

Bill,

Are the inspection markings overstamped? Or did they punch the A where normally the inspection markings are?

 

[automan1]

Heinrich
There are no inspection stamps overstamped evident or visible except on the the locking bolt
which has the inspection stamp with no capitol 'A'. The 'A' is stamped where the normal test proofs & inspection stamps should be.
Bill

 

[Heinrich]

Bill,

During my research on Reichsrevolvers I had four times the opportunity to study Erfurt revolvers completed either by A- marked parts or by stolen parts or a mix of both. It is known that some workers and foremen have been punished due to stolen and sold rifle parts.

Your 08- pistol is an interesting piece and an evidence for the fact that "Ausschuss"- parts found their way to a private assembler outside the factory. As we can see the 08 was already a sought-after object in those days.

 

[automan1]

Heinrich
Thank you for the feedback on this Erfurt Luger. I was waiting for your reply as I am trying to
collect all the new information I can on tnis interesting Luger.
Bill

 

[automan1]

Heinrich & Dwight
I just noticed that one photo did not come thru so here it is.
Bill

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[Heinrich]

Bill,
Thanks for the photo.
It confirms my opinion that you have a rare Erfurt 08, assembled with Ausschuss- parts.
I guess it is a fine completion of a Luder collection.

 

[automan1]

Heinrich
Your knowledge and comments made me feel very good about this ERFURT Luger. I tried for years to get any information on this Luger but I got nowhere and not realizing how rare it was....very interesting to me in all respects and I'll cherish it now due to the information supplied from you and Dwight.
Thanks again,
Bill

 

[Ron Smith]

My thought is as Dwight speculates, that this was be a "control" pistol or shop model, made up specifically to use as a gauge to train inspectors. A demonstration piece, more or less, to show them how it's not supposed to be. Or to demonstrate where to place the stamps.

Just a thought. And a very interesting and neat Luger. Congratulations Bill!!

Ron

 

[Vlim]

Hi,

You might want to know that it's unlikely to find a DWM-made pistol or 'AusschluB' parts. As DWM just sold military rejects on the commercial marked

 

[automan1]

Ron & Vlim
Thanks for your feedback & interest, all of this information from around the world is very intriguing to me. The members on this forum are terrific....boy what a site!!
Bill

 

[automan1]

To Dwight, Heinrich, Ron & Vlim,
I don't wish to be redounded about this 1911 Erfurt but I've taken
9 improved photos of it that I will post now.
You may want to retract some previous stated information or have
further comments or opinions be it negative or positive.
I really appreciated all the valuable information supplied by you and
now I wish to finalize this 1911 Erfurt with undated information and photos.

Update- Locking bolt has inspection stamp on left side.
Update- 'A' stamped on sear bar with '6'.
Update- 'A' stamped on sear bar safety with '6'
Update- Both grips stamped '6'.
Update- (Error)'A' not stamped on ejector.
9 updated photos attached.

1- Right side

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2- Left side

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3- Left side stampings

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4- Top with stampings

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5- Right rear of receiver stamped '3' & '20' in retangles

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6- Front bottom of barrel '6'

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7- Back bottom of barrel '6' & '?'

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8- Front of trigger guard

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9- Bottom of magazine '6'...disregard other magazine

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Thanks for looking,
Bill

 

[Ron Smith]

Bill,

Great photos, thanks for posting them. I am a bit envious. I like it very much.

Ron

 

[oeash]

Hi I also have 2 1911 ERFURT SN 5 with all the normal markings but my SN 9 is almost identical to the SN 6A in the photos here it has no bluing on it I though it was stripped but after looking closer I don't think it was ever blued the barrel looks like it has original machining marks around the sight band I will takes photos of it and try to send them from my office were I can get some help I got it from a auction house in Germany,
Dave

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[Dwight Gruber]

Bill,

Thanks for the addtional photos. Your resurfacing this discussion is a good coincidence, I mentioned it a few days ago in correspondence with another collector and am glad to see it again.

My conclusion is unchanged. Regarding Heinrich's comment that this was assembled outside the factory, the presence of an added holdopen and its corresponding stamp (visible in your original photos but not noted) suggests that this was an official factory assembly, and was held prominently enough that the 1913 retrofit instruction was applied unquestioningly.

The presence of inspector marked parts such as the takedown lever and the breechblock (and the magazine, as well), and unmarked parts such as the trigger and magazine release button (and the ejector?) as well as the trigger plate which certainly -looks- like it should have been rejected, further reinforce the thought that this gun was purpose-assembled; that they went to the parts bins when they couldn't find suitably rejected parts.

I sure wish that odd barrel stamp was complete enough to identify.

--Dwight

 

[automan1]

Ron,
Thanks again for looking and I didn't post them again to make you envious.

Dwight,
Again thanks for the additional information and I purposely tryed to make a clear photo of that
stamp on the bottom rear of the barrel but that is the best that can be done with my camera.

This site and the forum members are great...I thought I might be boring the members with a repeat performance.
Nice work on reviewing the Davis Luger book....where do you find the time.
Bill

 

[Dwight Gruber]

Bill,

The problem with the barrel stamp is not in its clarity, but that it is not a complete stamp.

--Dwight

 

[taudelt]

Very interesting. Never heard of this before. Appreciate the education.