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1912 Erfurt rework

2132 Views 8 Replies 4 Participants Last post by  Rich
John D.’s 1916 DWM presentation is a tough act to follow. Very nice John, thank you.

I, like John make no claim of being an expert, and would be grateful for any help with or information about this curious 1912 Erfurt P-08.

I know that page 60 of Jan Still’s Imperial Lugers states that these pistols were produced without the hold open, so we know it was modified when the hold open was added to this piece. We also know that the sear safety was not available for something like 20 years after this piece was made so it had to have been altered again a second time.

I know I used the word police to describe this pistol in some of the included images. There is no police inspection stamp or proof mark that I am aware of on this pistol so the police description is based on the sear safety alone and perhaps some would say that it is not a proper description for this pistol. Perhaps more knowledgeable collectors than I on this subject would disagree with the use of the word “Police” here? What do you think?

There are three crown/RC (revision commission) marks on this Luger, (left barrel, toggle, and right side of receiver. I know there is debate about the exact nature of these marks, some argue reuse of rejected parts, others reinspection or reissue or all of the above. If anyone has any evidence in favor of one or the other of these positions I would like to hear. I suspect the later instance, reused rejected parts as well as reinspection and reissue but I have no proof and if you know I’m wrong please educate me.

I would like to know if anyone has any clue about the history of this piece.
How did it avoid the 1920 Reichswehr stamp like the Weimar Police rework Erfurt on page 120 of Jan Still’s Weimar Lugers book?

I would also appreciate opinions on the authenticity and quality of this piece. How unusual is it to find a sear safety without any rework stampings along with it?

If anyone has an opinion on the value of this piece I would also be interested in their opinions on that as well.

I have trouble reading those gothic letters, does anyone know of a translation of the letters used on Imperial Lugers? I know there were many different gothic script alphabets used in Germany. Does anyone know specifically the name of the alphabet used on Imperial Lugers?

Thanks in advance for your help with this one.

Download Attachment: 1912 Erfurt Left Blue.jpg
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Download Attachment: 1912 Erfurt top-1.jpg
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Download Attachment: 1912 Erfurt lft bbl RC-0113.jpg
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Download Attachment: Proofs on right reciever.jpg
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There is even a tiny crown/gothic proof mark by the pin hole added to fit the hold open!

P.S. All serials match including the internals with the exception of an otherwise very nice but non matching Erfurt magazine.

Download Attachment: Erfurt Mag bottom-1.jpg
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Download Attachment: Erfurt 1912 right blue copy.jpg
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Download Attachment: inside grips 1912 copy.jpg
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Download Attachment: 1912 Erfurt g copy.jpg
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Some of the images I uploaded are not available I see, I'm not an expert on the computer either. The order I had the pictures in is a bit muddled as well as some of the images I re-tried took but are at the bottom. I'll see if I can fix this later.

Download Attachment: 1912 hold open pin mark.jpg
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Download Attachment: axel.jpg
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Download Attachment: bbl.jpg
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Rich, nice pictures, the few that didn't turn out, they are probably because you had spaces in the name? (I can see that you had spaces in some of the others, but this software application doesn't seem to like spaces, so I try to take them out when posting.)

I have seen other Imperial with a Sear Safety, and take them, and yours, as a police luger. Not all were totally reworked, as the rework might be simply adding a sear safety and that was all. Jan guesses that those with a sear safety and no mag safety were probably in storage until after the late 1930's after the mag safties were no longer placed on guns. My 1911 Erfurt has a sear safety and no mag safety ever placed on it; http://www.gunboards.com/luger/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=962

Hi Rich,

First - my thanks for your comments! I wish I knew more about your variation to be in a position to assist with some of your questions, but I'm sure others will post back when they read it.

Also - when I posted a picture thread the first time, I had the same "missing picture" problem. So, I just "renamed" the photo's without a space on my computer, and edited my orignal post to re-upload those few pictures. It should work just fine for you?

That being said - your pictures that do appear in this thread are excellent! I'm looking forward to seeing the rest, and reading some of the replies from those who are familiar with your variation..!

My Best to you,

Ed and John;
Thank you very much for your replies. Ed, thanks for the information about some police pistols being in storage before being converted and the link to your fine piece. Thats one question answered.

Thank you both for your technical assisstance in uploading images.
I don't have time to try and fix this now but I hope to get to it soon.
Excellent photographs and presentation.

It is not unusual for an Imperial Luger to have a sear safety and no other indication of Police issue. The sear safety's were installed by Prussian Police orders dated 1933 and there has not been any indication of the sear safety being installed on other than police Lugers. (Weimar Lugers page 206)

The C/RC is the Revisions-Commission stamp applied to indicate that a serviceable Luger has failed inspection because of non-critical tolerances or external flaws. The C/RC stamp approved the Luger for service and absolved the inspectors from blame if the Luger subsequently failed. The C/RC stamp is mostly confined to Erfurt’s. DWM, a private contractor did not have the option of supplying parts that did not meet specifications.(Imperial Lugers, page 62) (Gortz/Bryans page 118)
Thanks for your kind words, the scholarly citations, the "education", and this web site.

I have been getting this error message when trying to post images.
Does anyone know how to fix this problem?

Microsoft VBScript runtime error '800a0005'

Invalid procedure call or argument: 'Mid'

/luger/outputFile.asp, line 29

Rich, are the pictures less than 300 kilobytes? I am unsure of this error, have seen it myself, maybe John or Tuco knows it?

Ed, The image that brought that error message was a JPG about 140 KB and without any non alphabetic characters in the title.
I think I may have solved the problem. The images I put on this site are first imported into photoshop from my digital camera or scanner as photoshop documents. I then save them as JPEGs to make them small enough to send. The documents that would not load I reconverted back to photohop and then re-reconverted back to JPEGs and they loaded on this site no problem. It may be that the file name needs to end with".jpg" (there is a dot in front of the jpg) also.
I hope this information is helpful.
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