Jan C. Still Lugerforums banner
1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello, I am new to this forum, and to Luger forums, but I have known this gun for most of my life, as it was my grandfathers. He brought it back from WWII, specifically from the Battle of the Bulge. I am trying to learn more about it, and wanted some opinions and advice from seasoned collectors.

From some research, I know that this is a 1908 Erfurt military model, made in 1913, and it was originally assigned to a Jager machine gun unit. It seems Erfurts are the least desirable, but I cannot find much of anything on Jager units. Serials all match accept for the magazines. The wood base mag has 3873, gun is 3821.

Also, a local collector at a gunshow insisted that it had been re-blued. Given I know the history of this gun, I felt like he was trying to take me in an effort to buy it, but I also don't know what happened to this gun from WWI to WWII. Hopefully the photos give enough detail on the metal bluing. A couple of parts have a "rust" color blue on them, and it is a bit thin around this pistol grip and unit marking, and missing at the muzzle.

It has the empty mag hold-open feature also, which doesn't seem to be period correct for a 1908 from what I have read, but I am assuming it was added between WWI and WWII.



Appreciate your help and insight!
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
442 Posts
It has definitely been reblued; no question about it. The trigger, locking bolt, magazine release, and safety lever should all be strawed. Many of the sharp edges also appear softened/rounded which is another indicator your gun was reblued. Other signs that it was reblued are the softened markings (such as the unit mark) bluing inside the unit markings, and pitting and rough surface beneath the bluing, especially on the left side. It’s a shame as it is an otherwise nice gun. Since it has been buffed and refinished, it’s pretty much a shooter now, family history notwithstanding. And assuming your grandfather really did capture this, it’s likely he was the one who had it reblued.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It has definitely been reblued; no question about it. The trigger, locking bolt, magazine release, and safety lever should all be strawed. Many of the sharp edges also appear softened/rounded which is another indicator your gun was reblued. Other signs that it was reblued are the softened markings (such as the unit mark) bluing inside the unit markings, and pitting and rough surface beneath the bluing, especially on the left side. It’s a shame as it is an otherwise nice gun. Since it has been buffed and refinished, it’s pretty much a shooter now, family history notwithstanding. And assuming your grandfather really did capture this, it’s likely he was the one who had it reblued.
Thanks Bill, for the detail. I could not find a decent source for what an original blue should look like or what reconditioning the Germans might have done between WWI and WWII. He passed away back in 1997, so I have no one to ask anymore, but it was his pride and joy. Not that he talked much about the war anyway. It is possible he had it blued before I was born. He had it stored in an aftermarket shoulder harness style holster for as long as I can remember.

Thanks again!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
572 Posts
Yes...definitely re-blued as Bill stated...really no collector value, but it is a family heirloom that was treasured by your Grandfather...

It would make a nice shooter at the range, since the rifled bore looks very good...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,779 Posts
See Post # 12 by JD.

"J" was used for "I" in Germany at the time.
Early in the war regiments had only one MG company; later more were added and a grip marking would have the
number of the company added- or something like 14. J. 2. MGK. 56; if it happened to be the second MG company.

Hold opens were added to P 08 production during the year 1913, so were stock lugs. It is possible to find a 1913 pistol in several configurations. Hold opens were retrofitted to pistols without them after 1913; so even pistols made from 1908 to 1913 will be found with them- but not all were so fitted.

While it is not possible to say with certainty, the appearance is of a re-blue that was done in the US post war.

Welcome to the board.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,350 Posts
Yes, it has been refinished, but not too badly and that bore is a knockout! Also 1913 Erfurts don't grow on trees. Removing the blue from the trigger, locking bolt, magazine release, and safety lever and re-strawing them would be an easy and worthy face lift for a family heirloom. Cherish it and the memory of the guy that brought it back.
Ron
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yes, it has been refinished, but not too badly and that bore is a knockout! Also 1913 Erfurts don't grow on trees. Removing the blue from the trigger, locking bolt, magazine release, and safety lever and re-strawing them would be an easy and worthy face lift for a family heirloom. Cherish it and the memory of the guy that brought it back.
Ron
Thank you all for the responses!

Yes, it is a family heirloom for me, so I have no intention of selling it, but finding out it was re-blued is a little bit of a gut punch knowing it has been sitting idle in a drawer for my entire life. Knowing my grandfather, someone probably talked him into re-bluing it to restore it, not really thinking of the future collector value. Either way, I know he didn't fire it during my lifetime, so its possible it hasn't been fired since the 50s or 60s, or even WWII. He kept it with some really old remington 9mm ammo in his nightstand in a shoulder holster that I guess were common to find for GI bring backs post-war. This probably explains the minty bore. I often thought about firing it, but at the same time it is all matching with the exception of the mags, and knowing my luck something would break.

Thanks again for the detailed insight!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yes, it has been refinished, but not too badly and that bore is a knockout! Also 1913 Erfurts don't grow on trees. Removing the blue from the trigger, locking bolt, magazine release, and safety lever and re-strawing them would be an easy and worthy face lift for a family heirloom. Cherish it and the memory of the guy that brought it back.
Ron
Hi Ron, do you know of someone that does re-straw work?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,812 Posts
Unfortunately, the gun had been hot blued. But the edges are not badly messed up and the markings are still sharp(for the most part). In my opinion, this is one of those rare situations where the gun can be properly restored with edges resharpened and correct rust blue applied. If done carefully, it can be brought back to look like it should. Of course, one can leave it alone since it is a family heirloom and part of its history is the fact that it was reblued...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,779 Posts
I'd keep it in the same shape as your Grandfather did; as someone said above it is part of the history that can't really be
"un-done". JMHO.
 

·
Gold Bullet Member
Joined
·
1,521 Posts
I interpret it as 14 Jager battalion, machine gun company, weapon 58. Marked when their was only 1 company of MG in the unit.
Cursive R I believe is what you were thinking of. 14.R.J.R.M.G.K.58. would have been reserve infantry regiment. (first R cursive)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,779 Posts
I interpret it as 14 Jager battalion, machine gun company, weapon 58. Marked when their was only 1 company of MG in the unit.
Cursive R I believe is what you were thinking of. 14.R.J.R.M.G.K.58. would have been reserve infantry regiment. (first R cursive)
Thanks JD, you are correct, I was wrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I interpret it as 14 Jager battalion, machine gun company, weapon 58. Marked when their was only 1 company of MG in the unit.
Cursive R I believe is what you were thinking of. 14.R.J.R.M.G.K.58. would have been reserve infantry regiment. (first R cursive)
that is how I interpreted it also. I could not find much of anything on that unit though. Just that they were disbanded post WWI.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top