[RockinWR]

* Well Ron Wood, this puppy finally made it to my home after a long & cordial pursuit. Since I've owed you an answer to your AutoMag question of an eon ago, here's the one I reported. It is a variation not often seen. Enjoy!!
* Per J. Still, Vol.IV, Imperial Lugers</u>, Pg. 23-24, DWM produced approximately 35,000 Lugers chamber dated 1914. At the 1991 publication date, the known S/N range of reported examples was S/N 97-3553c.
* A May 6, 1913 Army directive was released mandating a stock lug to be added to the previous P.08 configuration. This became known to Collectors as the Model 1914 Luger. However, please note this example has no stock lug.
* Within the 1914 DWM production run, a small number of the "No stock lug" examples are noted. Jan suggests the S/N range of this configuration is 8000a-9400a based on the 6 examples reported to him in 1991.

Download Attachment: 1914-DWM-8083a-ILQ_0013.JPG
293.44 KB

A top view shows all as expected of a classic Army 1914 DWM.

Download Attachment: 1914-DWM-8083a-OT_0011.JPG
139.54 KB

From the S/N 8083a, assuming linear production throughout 1914, this example likely completed early July, 1914. If production accelerated after the start of WWI, this example likely would have been made somewhat (1 mo.??) later than the above estimate.

Download Attachment: 1914-DWM-8083a-OLS_0006.JPG
282.72 KB

(NOTE: Original pics reloaded 3/28/07 for member reference/enjoyment)

 

[RockinWR]

One identifying characteristic of this unique example is the triple Crown/X acceptance stamp sequence. This sequence is also shared by the 1908 & 1914 Commercial Army examples as described in IL</u> on Pgs. 25-26 and shown in Figs. 18a(Pg.53) & 19a(Pg.55). Some 1908 Commercial R.G. pistols are known to have a double C/X acceptance sequence. Less than 23 (14/5/4) commercial examples are reported of an estimated 650(450/100/200) produced of these latter 3 types. They are reported to have been manufacted in late 1913 or early 1914. Please refer to Jan's post on this board for an excellent presentation and pictures of 2 of these 3 variations. Other than the Commercial C/N vs Army/DWM proof marks, the similarities suggest production very nearly at the same time or, at least, under the same Army/DWM agreement as the Army 1914 displayed here IMHO.

Download Attachment: 1914-DWM-8083a-ORS_0008.JPG
284.25 KB

Download Attachment: 1914-DWM-8083a-ISN_0015.JPG
253.58 KB

* By 1914 Europe was on the verge of war. ArchDuke Franz Ferdinand was assassinated 6/28/14. WWI started 8/3/14.
* I've wondered how DWM was allowed to produce a No Stock Lug (NSL) version in 1914 well after the directive of 1913 was issued. I surmise, with the threat of war imminent, the Imperial Army took steps to put Reserve Units on notice, increase Police surveillence along borders, and engaged DWM/Erfurt to accelerate Luger production. This production spike could not be immediately implimented based on trained human & Capital machinery/fixture limits. However, one immediate step aiding a DWM spike would be an Army agreement to accept the NSL Frame in the Army Contract range and, also, Commercial marked pieces already finishing Assembly.
* And so, Ron, your question was: "Shouldn't this variation be accorded a separate designation because of its unique characteristics common to the 1908 Commercial Army which has its own designation?" IMO: It should at least have a Sub Variation designation assigned to it beneath the standard Army lugged S/Var.
* Question 1: Has anyone noted an original 1914 Army Erfurt produced without a stock lug?
* Question 2: Would Army unit call-up and expansion at the start of WWI suggest the pistols of this thread be more likely private purchased by Officers than issued?
* Question 3: What does the Forum Members think of a S/Var. to be assigned to this model/class of NSL 1914 Army??
* Confirmation, substantiation, further original S/N examples, or other thoughts related to these C/X marked examples would be appreciated.
* OBTW: Merry Christmas.
(NOTE: Original pics reloaded 3/28/07 for member reference/enjoyment)

 

[Edward Tinker]

Good write up and great photos Bob, look forward to any replies!

Ed

 

[Jan C Still]

Bob
Outstanding photographs and presentation of a Luger in beautiful condition.

I have not recorded a 1914 Erfurt without the lug.

Jan

 

[Ron Wood]

Wow Bob, that was a long time ago. My back issues of Automag are in storage, so I can’t look up when I asked that question.

Back then what prompted my thought that there should be a sub variation designation for this Luger was the reference you cited in Jan’s “Imperial Lugers” on page 25 that addresses the “1908 Commercial Army” variation that is serial numbered in the commercial style and range. I have one of the reported 1908 Commercial Army serial numbers, # 69879, in Jan’s book. But in addition to that one, I have one in the same configuration as yours, serial number 8310a, and like yours it has the triple C/X proof.

This variation is mentioned almost as an afterthought in the referenced paragraph, which states: “These inspection stamps are found almost exclusively on the 1908 Commercial Army and a few 1914-dated Army Lugers, which lack stock lugs, in the 8000a to 9400a serial range”. I think I suggested at the time that these “few 1914-dated” Lugers might deserve a sub variation designation since, with their military style serial numbering, they really don’t fit the “1908 Commercial Army” designation. I think I suggested a title of “1908 Army Commercial”, but probably “1908/14 Army” might be better.

Thanks for remembering and bringing this question back to the surface. By the way, congratulations for that “puppy” finally making its way to your home. It is a nice one and a bit better shape than mine, which made its way up out of Mexico a long time ago and has the gold Mexican eagles inlayed in the original grips to prove it.

 

[Luke]

Bob -

I was fortunate in purchasing one of these about a year ago. The serial number is 8754a.
Mine is in good condition except that it has some pitting on the side plate. Sad. I thought seriously about having it restored, but since it is a thoroughly never-messed-with gun, I decided to allow it to rest in its natural state. It has excellent matching grips and the triple C/X markings. An interesting variation.

Luke

 

[RockinWR]

Ron & Luke,
* Thanks for your responses & added S/N's.

Ron,
* Would you believe 7/98 in response to my 2/98 observation post. I think "'08/'14 Army" describes this S/Var. perfectly. That is if sans the "golden eagle" grips. Yours just had a little added provenence to spice up the history of your example.

Luke,
* I agree with your wise decision. In this case, an unretouched example bears testimony to its righteousness. It adds to the known history of what was right when.

* These 3 make 9 S/N's reported in addition to the 6 listed in Fig.13a on Pg.42 of IL. Nothing like expanding the reported examples by 50%.
* BTW: A 10th S/N example, #8368a, is reported in AutoMag, Issue XXXI(3/94), Pg.279.
* FWIW: The same 3/94 issue also lists a 1908 Commercial #61755, R.G.106 marked, with C/X C/X marks on the right receiver.
* I might add this same AutoMag page also contains the 1908 1st issue quote I noted in the Luger Forum concerning the double crown C/Z mark observed on a number of these 1908 examples. The report suggests by S/N a 1910 DWM and a 1911 DWM also shows a hint of a small crown below & to the right of the large crown acceptance mark. However this should be fodder for a separate thread discussion I think.

 

[taudelt]

Observed 1914 DWM 8484a with no stock lug and the triple C/X inspector stamp.

 

[sonor]

Thats a beauty, another varaition I now have to hunt for. Thanks for posting.
Dante