[Guest]

I have recently purchased a 1914 Erfurt Luger. It has the serial # 5032. The #'s are the same on the barrel and the reciever. It has a stock lug also. I would say that it is in about 85% condition. Could somebody tell me more about this pistol and what its worth. It has the markings on the grip screws. I can tell you more if you need to know.

 

[Ron Smith]

Hello Don,

Nice find and welcome to the band of Nutburgers and Luger Letches. 1914 Erfurts are very scarce.Only about 7000 were produced, including the Artillery variation or LP.08. Does it have a letter suffix below the ser# on the front of the frame? Does it have a 4" or 8" barrel? Nearly all of the parts should have an imperial proof stamped on them. Without photos it's very difficult to set a value, but being a 1914 Erfurt. It would command a respectable price in just about any condition to varying degrees. Please post photos of it if you are able. Does it have any tiny "RC" stamps on it? Is the front grip strap stamped in any way?

Ron

 

[drbuster]

Dear Don, Ron Smith is right on with his comments. I am fortunate to own two 1914 4" barrel Erfurts. They are supposed to be the scarcest of the WW1 production Lugers, save for the 1910 Erfurt and 1914 DWM Artillery. To be a "true" 4" barrel Erfurt, it must have an unrelieved sear bar, have no notch over the chamber for the Artillery rear sight, and two acceptance marks on the bottom of the wooden magazine (later Erfurts, 1913 onwards have only one). And, of course, the serial number range goes only into the "b" suffix range, as only 7 thousand are reported (Still says the known serial range is 504-9448b..page 15 of Imperial Lugers). A number of putative "1914" Erfurts have appeared over the last few years with later suffix numbers (up to "q"), a notch over the chamber, relieved sear bars, and only one acceptance mark on the magazine. It is my feeling that these are either "reworks" or later factory releases using left over 1914 receivers. I can see no other explanations for them. Please let us know further information on your 1914. Maybe you can post pictures.

 

[Guest]

Don't you just love Erfurt for following the order for the marking of the P08.


Download Attachment: Erfurt-1.jpg
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[Guest]

I have looked over my gun again.It has a 4 inch barrel. It has the imperial proofs on every part of it. It dont have a notch on top of the reciever. I am not real sure of what you mean by an unrelieved sear bar.I am not sure waht you mean by rc stamps either. It does not have any letter in front of the serial # either. Plase reply

 

[drbuster]

Don, So far it sounds like you have the real McCoy, so to speak. An unrelieved sear bar is that part under the side plate that pivots outwards when you pull the trigger to release the firing pin. Unrelieved means that with the safety on you cannot pull up the toggle knobs to cock the mechanism. Later models "relieved" this, that is, cut away some of the metal so one could pull up the toggles with the safety on. The Crown/RC proof is a common proof mark found on various places, such as on the upper part of the barrel, in front of the trigger guard, top of the rear toggle link, etc. It means "Revision Commission" and is thought to mean that an inspector is passing a questionable part to relieve him of responsibility. Many Erfurts have this proof, but by no means all. One of my 1914's does not have any C/RC proofs, the other has three. Still would like to see pictures. It was unusual by 1914 to have unit marks stamped on the front grip strap. As to this piece's value on today's market, I've seen them go from $1000 in fair-good condition (70-80%), all the way up to $2500 for excellent condition (85-95%) and everywhere in between. A matching magazine adds at least 10% to the value. An Erfurt is not often found in excellent condition.

 

[Ron Smith]

Don, This a photo of an unrelieved sear bar. They were later cut back so that the action could be cycled while the safety was on. A relieved sear bar would only protrude to the green line.

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R/C stands for revision commission. Erfurt Lugers are often found with these marks on the frame, barrel, toggle, etc.
This meant that, that particular part did not pass inspection and was sent back for replacement. The replaced part was stamped with the R/C to show that it was replaced. And meets specifications.
These became more common as the war progressed. I was asking for the benefit of the members that collect this data.

Ron

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[Pete E.]

Hi Don,

Any chance you might post-up some photos of your Erfurt...?

 

[Guest]

Attached are a few shots of 1914 dated Erfurt P08 number 6572ns. It has a relieved sear bar, but otherwise is just as you would expect to find it, including a rather nice finish for an Erfurt.
I too thought that the Crown/RC indicated a part that had originally been rejected for a minor flaw, but had been been accepted for service by the Revisions Commission and was stamped to indicate it's later acceptance.

Download Attachment: Erfurt-2.jpg
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Download Attachment: Erfurt-4.jpg
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Download Attachment: Erfurt-5.jpg
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[Dwight Gruber]

Johnny,

Thats a -really- nice 1914 Erfurt you have there, thanks for the opportunity to see it.

With respect to my friend Ron, I must enter pedagogic mode for a moment. You are correct in your understanding of the Revisions-Commission. Also, according to Still's "Imperial Lugers", the 1914 P-08 and LP-08 are found with intermixed serial numbers, and the estimated production of 1914 P-08 is around 7,000 pieces, but LP-08 production is estimated at 23,000.

--Dwight

 

[Edward Tinker]

quote:Originally posted by Olhairy

Plase reply

uhhhh, they had already replied three times since your first answer and another 3 or 4 times since then...

If you'd like a value, please provide lots of pictures, otherwise it is a crapshoot, as condition and any pitting etc., makes a huge difference.

 

[Ron Smith]

Dwight, What kind of mode?? Sorry, you are correct, I mis-read.

Ron

 

[drbuster]

Johnny, that's the nicest 1914 Erfurt I've ever seen. Looks like it spent the Great War in someone's holster and never came out. I don't think the relieved sear bar is original, but who can say for sure?

 

[john l lockwood]

hi guys; i guess i'm a member of the nutburger assn.. about 5 months ago i picked up a triple proofed erfurt artie cleaning rod. i then had to have the gun for the rod, finally found one, nice piece,no pitting, all (many-many) proofs on everything, no dents, no scratches, almost no finish, all matching #'s. new dilema, refurnish, or leave it alone? my g-smith can do the orig. rust blue. comments please. i'm on my way to the mid-hudson friends of the nra .shortly. --john--

 

[drbuster]

John, if he can re-blue it without buffing I might consider it, otherwise leave it alone, IMHO.

 

[john l lockwood]

hi drbuster; i know it's an emotional thing, but i don't like looking at my "stuff" and seeing a nice piece that would otherwise be an 85% gun hanging there with virtualy no finish. i know that the purists would cringe at the thought of refinishing, however i'm dickering for a 56 cadillac, if i get it it will be completely restored and will give someone pleasure long after i'm gone. to my thinking the gun will never be worth less than what i paid for it. i think that thor would approve. also, i can't afford a 90% erfurt artie, those are for the heavy hitters. your advice well taken, thanks. regards, --john--

 

[Guest]

I have again inspected my Luger. It has an unrelieved sear bar. There is very little pitting. I had a gun expert that came in my store and he said that it was in better thatn 90% condition but he didn't have a monetary idea of what a Luger was worth. If anybody could give me a rough figure it would be appreciated. I wish that i could send pictures but I have no way to do so. Please reply.

 

[drbuster]

Don, In the purest sense, the "true" 1914 Erfurt P.08 left the factory with an unrelieved sear bar. Can you take a look to see if yours has the matching number on it? Is it Erfurt proofed? Also, you are asking a difficult question as to its value. The fact that you mention your "shop", are you a gun retailer? Are you selling this piece as a retail item? If it can be proven to one's satisfaction that it is all original, with a matching double acceptance marked magazine and "90%" original finish, I would hazard a guess that it should be priced $1400-1600. One of these on Randy Bessler's web site about 2-3 years ago, in 85% condition, went for $1500. That piece had an unrelieved sear bar and a matching correct magazine. I hope you realize that without pictures, guessing is the best one can do.

 

[Guest]

My pistol has the matching # on the sear bar and it is unrelieved. i don own a gun shop. But I bought the gun for an investment, not to sale.The magazine is double stamped but not with the same serial#. It has the # 9447.

 

[Ron Smith]

Don, You bought the right one for an investment. Nice choice.