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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I picked this up at a small local gun show. It came with a matching number take down tool.
This looks like a WWI holster converted during WWII for police issue. I am also not smart enough to know if it was a converted artillary holster. What are the specific signs of that? Thoughts are appreciated.
The take down tool, matches by number and appears original to me. There is also some fine metal wire that looks like an effort to replace stitching lost. I have no idea when that was done. No provenance with holster. It also came with a stark marked mag which I am posting in a separate thread.
Is this holster maker fairly common? I would appreciate opinions on leaving the metal wire stitching as is or send to Jerry for a proper repair. I know the wire is part of the history and if I knew it was a field repair by a soldier I would leave it as is, but???
All thoughts and opinions are much appreciated.
John

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When the artillery holster is repurposed, the cleaning rod pouch is removed. The holes left from the stitching will tell you if it is a converted artillery holster...Bill
 

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John, The two things to look for on a converted artillery holster are the stitching for the cleaning rod holder and the stitching for the stock straps.. The stitching for the cleaning rod will extend clear to the toe of the converted holster and will not be covered by the magazine pouch. Either, the stitching holes or the leather piece, for the stock straps will be in the center of the back of the holster.
From what I see, this is a converted army holster not a converted artillery.
The wire, it's your chose, but I would send it to Jerry. I can remember safety wiring buttons on my fatigues a few times in the field. It works well, if you don't have any thread.
Pat
 
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Very unusual to see a tool numbered like this...
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I would like to know more about the take down tool. Way outside of my knowledge.
John
 

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Didn't look close enough at first..The tool is post war East German.
 

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The tool looks just like a weimar era tool. The wavy texture and the length longer. Search the forum for Klaus threads on tool identification. The east german tools usually have lines on the thumb.
 

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I can remember safety wiring buttons on my fatigues a few times in the field. It works well, if you don't have any thread. Pat
In the 1960's when the Air Force issued fatigues and field jackets with buttons, I lost a couple because the thread gave out. I found a spool of green nylon thread used by the Fabrication Shop and sewed all my buttons on with that. Then I sealed the nylon thread with a soldering iron. Never lost another button.

To keep this on-topic, I also think the holster should be sent to Jerry. The condition warrants the effort.
 

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The east german tools usually have lines on the tumb.


While that may be true it is also true that in 30 years I have never seen an authentic WW1 tool with an alligator hide surface. That surface is peculiar to East German post war tools.
 
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Here are some photos of Weimar tools. Identified by Klaus.

John - if you have a WWI tool then lay the tool in question down with it side by side. A Weimar tool will be a little longer. Also, look at the top of the 'thumb'. See the photo (screen shot of Klaus post) of example of the Weimar thumb difference. Weimar tool is on the left.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thank you for the additional references. I do not have a Wiemar tool to compare to. My knowledge on Luger's is limited. I took a couple of additional pics that might help, not sure.
John
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John,
Here are a couple of pictures of my modest collection of take down tools. Top left is the earliest, bottom right is the latest. At least 4 are Weimar Era. 3 are E/6 marked Simson's and 1 is M/anchor marked Weimar Navy.
Pat
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646609
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Very nice collection of tools Pat. The alligator finish that Jerry mentions does not appear on any of your examples. I would agree with the opinion that my tool is a post war VOPO item. The numbering on my tool is also different than your examples which leads to further VOPO use. I appreciate the information. Thanks again.
John
 

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John,
I've danced all around it, but I see, I'm going have to step in it, anyway.😞 The alligator finish on your tool is due to the rolling process. Sheet metal, for these tools appears to be "Hot Roll". Hot roll imparts a little toughness to the sheet metal. As the hot metal passes through the rollers carbon builds up on the rollers. This imparts a graininess to the surface of the metal, that is not unpleasant to the eye.
The coating of VOPO tools appears to be something similar to bluing or Parkerizing.
I think your tool is a 100% Weimar and right.
Pat
PS, Sorry for the sink this will stir up.👃
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thanks for stepping in. Civil discourse is how we all learn and potentially a good thread for future collectors. I still have no certain conclusion.
John
 

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I don't have much disagreement with some points contrary to mine and I am glad to state my case without rancor. The shape..it is long legged and not what I could think of as a later style where the lady found maturity and got trash can thighs. So it is likely earlier than later. The thumb striations are missing for an Ernst Thalman east German tool. From what little I know of tools the East German tools had the Alligator hide on the back not the front. But I could swear I have seen it on the front too? The Alligator hide is something I have never seen on anything but an East German tool with thumb serrations. NEVER have I seen this Alligator hide on a WW1 tool..certainly never seen it on a WW1 tool that was marked. I think Eugene Bender discusses the Alligator hide tool in Luger Holsters & Accessories. East German 1954 I think. But this one is not strictly one or the other..a mystery. I suppose sooner or later a real tool expert will weigh in and clarify all this but for now...
 

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Where is Klaus when we need him? If the top of your tool has the same bend it is likely Weimar.
 
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