[automan1]

I hope everything goes well, if not please advise me of any faults.
I acquired this Luger over 8 years ago.
Serial No. 7076, 4" rebarreled C/N proofed, all acceptance stamps and matching part numbers except wood bottom magazine #8369 in Luger.
This Luger is identical in description to the one on pg. 200 of Weimar Lugers except dated 1917. The holster has the Totenkopf stamp, non-matching wood bottom magazine #8175 in holster & loading tool with WWI military acceptance stamp in holster.
I assume it was used in WWI, Weimar era and into the Nazi era, is this correct?
What would be the approximate value of this Luger, holster, spare magazine & loading tool?

Prior to enrolling on this site I had some conflicting opinions about this Luger and I'm now asking the knowledgeable forum members for their expertise on it.
Any feedback and/or information be it negative or positive is greatly appreciated by me.
Bill




Download Attachment: DSC00110.jpg
91.62KB

Download Attachment: DSC00111.jpg
86.38KB

Download Attachment: DSC00160.jpg
66.37KB

Download Attachment: DSC00164.jpg
76.63KB

Download Attachment: DSC00408.jpg
50.45KB

Download Attachment: DSC00399.jpg
47.73KB

Download Attachment: DSC00403.jpg
129.34KB

Download Attachment: DSC00124.jpg
67.13KB

Download Attachment: DSC00140.jpg
85.1KB

Download Attachment: DSC00141.jpg
157.91KB

Download Attachment: DSC00365.jpg
55.16KB

 

[Edward Tinker]

Bill, I saw one marked just like this (if memory serves me), in a collection in Texas.

Ed

 

[automan1]

Ed,
I don't know where this Luger was before I acquired it but I got it in Phila., PA.
Is there any feedback you could possibly give me on it?
Bill

 

[keoki7]

I used to think that it would be great to add one of these to my collection until about five or six years ago. I was at the October Tulsa show and saw no fewer than four of these on four different tables. Each was priced at $1800.

Bill, since that day, the doubts outweigh any earlier interest. I hope that yours is legit.

 

[Tom Whiteman]

I have two lugers with identical markings (not the tool). One came with capture papers. I have seen prices on them from 1800 to 2500.

 

[Ron Wood]

Bill,
I acquired my DH in 1969 while stationed at an air defense missile site in New Jersey. This site was part of the Philadelphia defense and about 45 miles from Philly. I bought it from a plumber who was making some repairs at the site. It is a DWM dated 1913 (with stock lug!) and is not in as nice condition as yours, having little original finish left, replaced side plate (numbered to gun but with different font). I have been told by a couple of sources that some of these DH Lugers were part of a lot of Lugers brought in from Austria in early- to mid-1960 but I have no way of verifying this.

I also have a holster, purchased recently, marked as yours is, but made by Otto Sindel, Berlin, 1916. It has a Weimar style unit marking 5./A.R.2.16.

My gun and holster are the set that Ed saw in Texas. I sent the gun to Klaus Schad some years ago and he felt it is an authentic example and not a later date fake.

 

[Pete E.]

Are authentic DH's stamped or engraved (i.e. pantographed)...???

 

[Ron Wood]

Pete,
They are stamped, and because of the uniform depth of the impression across the curved surface of the chamber I think it was probably a roll die.

 

[Pete E.]

Thanks, Ron !

 

[automan1]

Geo, Tom, Ron
I now believe and feel more comfortable that this Totenkopf to be authentic from the feedback received from the members on it.

Ron,
I also believe you're right in stating it was roll die stamped.

Thanks to all the members for their interest in this Totenkopf Luger.
Bill

 

[Guest]

Would the roll die marking suggest that the pistols were sent back to a manufacturing facility to have the marking applied? Roll die marking would require specialized equipment far more complex than that available on the field level.

 

[automan1]

Johnny,
You have a point there, maybe some member can add something to answer your question.
Bill

 

[keoki7]

I hope that the Totenkopf Luger is a legitimate variation. I like Jan's thoughts on it as presented in his book. I would love to own one with provenance, capture papers don't count for much in a stand alone situation.

I wouldn't buy one today with someone else's money. Counterfeiters ruin whole areas of collectibles by their actions. Those of you who pooh-pooh the transgressions of known fakers just because of their celebrity status are bigger fools than their victims.

 

[Guest_V]

I´ve seen it done. The equipment was not all that complex or unwieldy. I imagine that WWI Lugers for Totenkopf (Freikorps, etc) units could well have had their stamp rolled on. On the other hand, it would not be much of a problem to fake. Would this be one of those "halo" inducing processes?

 

[Guest]

Maybe complex was not the correct choice of words, but the quipment capable of properly and precisely applying a roll die still would not have been available on the field level. There was a directive to apply the Reichswehr property stamp, yet all that I have seen appear to be hand stamped with some being rather crude. The property stamp was applied by local armories rather than being sent back to DWM or Erfurt, and with absolutely no documentation on the source or origin of the "Death's Head", there has to be a question as to who would have applied the stamp.

 

[sauerfan]

Gentlemen,

as always, I read this discussion with interest, especially, as I don't know much about Lugers. As far as I know, the Totenkopf/S variations are still a mystery regarding the question: are they real or not? Well, the design of the skull seems to belong to one of the Freikorps. Maybe the "Freiwilligen-Garde-Grenadier-Batallion Spandau" ?? Just kidding....

One simple question: has this skull/S marking been observed on other weapons, like the K 98a or b, any bayonets or the like? If this marking would be the logo of a specific troop, it wouldn't be likely, that only Lugers were marked so. Or?

Martin

 

[runner]

The Totenkopf lazy S marking has also been observed on K98k rifles that were converted from Gew. 98 rifles. The concensus seems to be that these marks were applied post WW1 if authentic. Unfortunately as on lugers, the marks are widely faked on Mauser rifles as well.

runner

 

[automan1]

Patrick,
I don't think roll die stamping creates a 'halo' but I might be wrong. Maybe some forum members could answer this with a more precise clarification of the process.
Bill

 

[Dwight Gruber]

Bill,

I think that you will find that -any- stamping which is applied after bluing will halo, regardless of the process of application.

--Dwight

 

[automan1]

Dwight,
I removed the white fill from the Totenkopf stamping and it is blued and it also shows a slight halo effect around the entire perimeter. This was evident when I examined it under a Nikon 20X comparator. I should have done that in the first place but with all the comments about the stamping I decided to examine it more closely. Thanks for the information on stampings, I should have known.
Bill