[lugercollector]

I just received this gun...1917 DWM #334c with 9K.M.C.1. 1. marked on the grip strap...anyone know what this means...Thanks...Peter...

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[Doubs]

Perhaps Jeff or others will say I'm wrong but it doesn't look "right" to my eyes. The font looks wrong and the picture doesn't show any halo around the letters/numbers. The stampings look like the metal that was displaced is shiney, indicating a recent strike. Also, VERY few 1917 Lugers, according to Jan Still, were unit marked. It may be the picture doesn't give a true image and, in any event, it's just my opinion based on what I can see.

 

[Jan C Still]

Peter, Doubs
Re: 1917 DWM #334c with 9K.M.C.1. 1. (The stamps seem to have a halo of sorts).

I can only guess at this marking: The 9K may signify 9Th Company, the M may signify a munitions column, the C is very unusual in a unit marking (perhaps it is a broken "G"). the last 1 signifies the weapons number. The marking may be only partial.
Perhaps Klaus or Jeff can deciper this.
Jan

 

[Heinz]

Peter, normally unit stampings appear to have been stamped over a mandrel of some sort. That is to say the grips would be removed and the thin forward grip strap section rested over a stake mandrel held in a vise or other holder to furnish a solid surface behind the grip frame so the letters would properly stamp without denting the front strap of the grip. In your photograph, this does not appear to be the case. There seems to be definite denting and the M in particular seems to have had more than one strike. This is not usual but not definitive of fakery either as 1917s were not normally marked and marking could have been done in a "heimgemach" manner in a line unit.

 

[Jan C Still]

The Berlin 29 January 1909 regulations for marking the P08 (section E)"To mark Pistolen 08, the right grip and the magazine shall be removed. The frame must be placed on a solid base." See Gortz and Bryans page 17.) Rarely a unit stamp will dent the grip strap as shown above.

I do not believe someone would deliberately put such a crude partial unit mark on a Luger to enhance its value. It detracts from rather than adds to its value. Rather than a fake marking, I would suggest that it was poorly applied late in World War I.
Jan

 

[Heinz]

I think I agree with you Jan. Perhaps Peter will share some more pictures of the entire pistol with us and we will learn more.

I checked Gortz and Bryans per your note above. The "solid base" is what I meant by a stake mandrel (or stake anvil) I will try to post a picture of a typical one next week. The Proceedure for the Reichrevolver on the same page would appear to require anapprentence. Do the Reichsrevolver unit stamps in general appear "softer" from the less solid hold? I am going to check the one you have posted, but I have to close this message first.

 

[Jeff Noll]

All, I think the "C" could be a broken die "G". From the looks of the stamping "C" it could be a real possibility. Notice how high the lower part of the "C" comes up compared to the top coming down. Seems like the little tit of the "G" could be missing from the die. 9th Kompagnie, [leichte] Maschinen-Gewehr [zug] 1, Weapon 1. Jan is right on with the late war, non-regulation, marking assessment. Jeff

 

[lugercollector]

Thank You for the replies Gentlemen.....here are some more photos..including some of the magazine well that has been dented by the stamping..the gun came from a collection that I just purchased that had been sitting for 30 plus years.....I would think that it is original....it would make sense that the C is supposed to be a G...

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[klaus]

quote:Originally posted by lugercollector

I just received this gun...1917 DWM #334c with 9K.M.C.1. 1. marked on the grip strap...anyone know what this means...Thanks...Peter...

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[klaus]

Lugercollector,

9K.M.C.1.1. is a wartime formation and not stamped according to the regulation. This unit mark is in my opinion a munition column of the heavy artillery.
Here are some listings from my archive.

9.Kurze Marine Kanonen Batterie (42cm)
9.Schwere Kuestenmoerser Batterie (30.5 cm)
9.Schwere Kanonen Batterie (15 cm)

"9K.M.C.1.1" = Ammo column 1 weapon # 1 of one of the above listed batteries.

Source : Geschichte des Deutschen Heeres im Weltkrieg 1914-1918. Das Ehrenbuch der Deutschen Schweren Artillerie. Feldgrau, ZfH.

Klaus

 

[lugercollector]

Klaus, Fascinating!!Thanks for the information!!!...My Grandfather was a Lewis Machine Gunner in the British Army in WW1....he was wounded and captured by the Germans near the end of the war....he had at least one bullet that remained in his leg for the rest of his life...

 

[Jeff Noll]

All, A couple of additional data points for your consideration. First is Herr Fischer's dog tag. He was in the 423rd Infantry Regiment, originally in the 8th Company but was reassigned to the 1st MGK. Of interest is the fact that a broken "G" die was used to overstamp his 8th Company marking twice and upside down to boot. Note the non-symmetrical characteristic of this broken die. Note the similarity to the stamping on this pistol discussed above. I have posted a composite photo for better viewing. Second in a M07 Dreyse (the Regimental marking is discussed elsewhere), serial number 183510. Note the Nitro proofs. To a novice they would appear crown/II instead of crown/N. It was in fact stamped with a broken Nitro die three times. My point here is that broken dies were used to mark equipment in the field and also by factory inspectors. Jeff

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