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Discussion Starter #1
Hello, i hope you guys can help me out a bit. My grandfather bought this Luger in the 90s here in Germany and he has now given it to me (just have to finish the paperwork). However he didnt really know much about it so im currently gathering all the information i can get, especially to evaluate if its a gun i can shoot regulary. Now to the gun itself from what i can tell.
-caliber is 9mm
-the serial number is 74761 which puts it among the very first post war production commercial Lugers according to the FAQ (first one around 74745)
-It fits the description of the 1919 commercial Luger by DWM according to the "standard catalog of Luger" except that the caliber of the earlier ones were .30 (and it puts the serial number range of those starting at 74845 so its among the first 100 guns produced before those in .30).
-It has the lazy crown proof mark
-No chamber marking, no markings on the right side, nothing on the front side of the grip.
-Its matching numbers except the grip panels
-The spring is unusually strong according to others who have handled more lugers than me, possibly new.
-blueing seems to be not original (no halo around the stamps, there seems to be evidence of previous rustdamage on the toggle knobs that is blued over), the parts that need straw color are straw colored.
-magazine is likely original (wood base and no number)
-no relieved sear
-it has a stock lug

Is there anything more you can tell me about my Luger? Is it anything special, especially due to low serial number for a post ww1 gun (if it even is post ww1 or maybe even one of the last pre war commercial guns)? Im planning on getting a newly made barrel and upper assembly for regular shooting because the barrel is not the best anymore and getting multiple Lugers is not that easy here, im limited to two handguns. So even if it is something rare i could still shoot it without breaking parts.
 

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Your pistol was made just before the changeover to the relieved sear bar in 1916. That, and the lazy c/N proof, are consistent with the other commercial pistols from mid-1916. It is possible that the pistols in that range stayed in inventory and were not sold until the war's end. It is known that certain pistols in the early 75xxx serial range were sold to Switzerland immediately after the war.

Aarron Davis's "Standard Catalog..." is a remarkably unreliable source. Just for instance, there is no recognized "1919 commercial" collector designation (see this link Review: "Standard Catalog of Luger" (long) ). If you do a Forum search you will find several discussions about good source literature.

--Dwight
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thats very interesting, thank you. Didnt know there was still some commercial production during the war. So 1916 then. Is there any way to identify one that went to switzerland? I was already suspecting that the Standard Catalog was not the best because it didnt include the lazy c/N proof and the relieved/unrelieved sear bar but it was available as pdf so thats what i took as a start.
 

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This will make Dwight cringe, but I tend to think of this series of Lugers as 1913 Commercials that represent a very few commercial models produced right after the re-introduction of the stock lug as a standard production feature late in 1913. I think it at least should be considered quite scarce and possibly even rare. I know of few examples.
Ron

P.S. I could be wrong, but I am not convinced that your gun has been refinished.
 

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P.S. I could be wrong, but I am not convinced that your gun has been refinished.
Ron, neither am I... BUT, I'm wondering a bit about the straw colored extractor. I've been blued ones and red ones and reddish-purple ones but a straw colored extractor is most unusual to me. Have the strawed parts been "freshened" to include the extractor?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Ron, neither am I... BUT, I'm wondering a bit about the straw colored extractor. I've been blued ones and red ones and reddish-purple ones but a straw colored extractor is most unusual to me. Have the strawed parts been "freshened" to include the extractor?
Oh my mistake then. I was so convinced that the extractor needs to be straw colored because it just looks right and pretty nice that i didnt check if that part is even supposed to be straw colored. I do actually prefer it that way. But shouldnt that and the lack of halos around the numbers indicate that its refinished?
 

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Oh my mistake then. I was so convinced that the extractor needs to be straw colored because it just looks right and pretty nice that i didnt check if that part is even supposed to be straw colored. I do actually prefer it that way. But shouldnt that and the lack of halos around the numbers indicate that its refinished?
I think Ron is seeing what I am and that's the sharp edges of your pistol. When a Luger is refinished, the sharp corners and lines are often rounded when the buffing wheel is used to remove the remaining old finish. It takes a talented individual who is very careful to maintain the sharp lines if the gun is refinished. When time is a factor or the individual isn't careful, often the lines suffer.

When the serial numbers and other stamps are applied to the parts before they are blued, it's unlikely that a halo will be seen. If the serial numbers and other stamps were applied after the bluing was done, over time the halos will begin to show. On commercial production guns, I don't know if DWM applied the stamps or the finish first and it's possible that the procedure changed one or more times over the years of production.
 

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...Is there any way to identify one that went to switzerland?...
Not really. In all ways they are physically standard P08s with no special identifying markings. Right after the end of the war the police in the Swiss canton (county) of Basel ordered several hundred P08s which DWM supplied from commercial production. This is conventional wisdom; documentation has never been supplied or cited. The recognized pistols in collectors' hands originate directly from Switzerland. The holsters which have come with these pistols are identifiably unique. In addition, the holsters have snap closures; the pistols which have spent a long time in them have a depression in the right grip panel which rides beneath the snap.

--Dwight
 

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Not really. In all ways they are physically standard P08s with no special identifying markings. Right after the end of the war the police in the Swiss canton (county) of Basel ordered several hundred P08s which DWM supplied from commercial production. This is conventional wisdom; documentation has never been supplied or cited. The recognized pistols in collectors' hands originate directly from Switzerland. The holsters which have come with these pistols are identifiably unique. In addition, the holsters have snap closures; the pistols which have spent a long time in them have a depression in the right grip panel which rides beneath the snap.

--Dwight
Thrifikinor and all,

I have what I believe to be a 1920 DWM commercial luger. The caliber is 30 luger and has the 3 3/4 inch barrel. The reason I am posting it here is that it also has a straw colored extractor. The OP's pistol and mine are 3774 numbers apart (his 74761 and mine 78535). 78535 has a vertical C/N as compared to the lazy C/N. The side plate has the complete serial number on it, 35 on bottom outside and 785 inside. I believe the pistol is in original condition as the chamber end of the barrel is in the white. The inside rails are also in the white. The bore is bright and sharp, no hint of pitting or frost.
638430
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638431
638432
638433
638434
638435
638436
638437
638438
DSC04650.JPG DSC04652.JPG DSC04649.JPG DSC04648.JPG DSC04654.JPG DSC04651.JPG DSC04653.JPG DSC04639.JPG DSC04655.JPG Have any other straw colored extractors been reported by collectors or mentioned in books?

Geo.
 
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