[automan1]

This is my first try on this site so bear with me.
I purchased this Carbine eight years ago. I've been trying to find out if it might be original. Serial No. 8095, Crown 'N' Proofs, 'Germany' engraved on left side of frame only, '95' stamped on all parts, American Eagle on Chamber, 100-800 meter rear sight with fine tuning, 1902 barrel & front sight with ramp, Barrel length is 11.25 in., 7.65mm. Forearm is secured with a thumb screw (no spring assist). Stock is the one pictured in Kenyon's book pg. 393, Iron on stock stamped 'Made in Germany' and no steel buttplate, both stock & foresarm are checkered. Condition 98% on
all parts. Does not appear to be reblued.
Any information on this carbine would be appreciated.
Bill
Here are the photos

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[Edward Tinker]

Bill, welcome to the forum.

Can you provide pictures, close ups and both full sides?

I am no expert on this, but sounds like the later 1920 carbine (if that is the right terminology).

Ed

 

[automan1]

Ed
I cannot provide pictures as I have no digital camers, but I was told that it was a 1920 carbine
at a gun show in Allentown, PA (not by the seller). Is there any way that I can describe certain features that you might desire. I'm in the dark as to the approximate value of this carbine. I purchased it for $2500.
Bill

 

[Dwight Gruber]

Bill,

Digital camera not necessary for pics here, shoot regular prints and scan them.

The forearm thumb screw soungs strange, otherwise the gun sounds very much like a 1920 Carbine. If it is real, you got an extraordinary deal.

--Dwight

 

[automan1]

Dwight,
I am a novice on the computer, I never shot or scanned prints because I don't know how.
I read somewhere about the forearm thumb screw and that's where I got the term.
Thanks for the approximate value of this Carbine.

 

[Ron Wood]

Dwight's question was prompted by the fact that Luger carbines have the forearm attached by a wedge that passes through an extension on the front of the frame. The sling swivel might look like a thumbscrew but it has no function in attaching the forearm.

 

[automan1]

Dwight & Ron,
The thumb screw on the forearm I mentioned I will describe. The diameter is .46 & straight knurled, thicknes is .13, 2nd diameter that makes contact with the forearm is .37 diameter x .05 thick, slot in knurled diameter is .05 wide x .10 deep, head is slightly oval, straw colored & stamped '95' and screws into the extension on the front of the frame.
It is located 1 1/2" to the rear of the sling swivel on the bottom of the forearm.
I'm familar with the Luger Carbine with the wedge as I have one.
Bill

 

[automan1]

Dwight & Ron,
I finally found the book in which it mentions the forearm not having a auxiliary recoil spring, the forearm is held with a screw.
LUGER WITH VARIATIONS (Volume One) by Harry E. Jones (1975), page 157.
I would like the comments that you might have on this discovery.
Please bear with me as I'm excited with new site that Jan Still steered me to.
Bill

 

[Ron Wood]

Guess I should have read old Harry's book a little more carefully. I have never seen a 1920 carbine with an auxiliry recoil spring nor have I seen one with the forearm held on with a screw. Lots of variations in those 1920 pieces! Would it be possible for you to post pictures of this feature? It is always great to learn something new.

 

[automan1]

Ron,
I can't post pictures as I have no camera to take pictures of the small details.
Thanks for all information received from you.

 

[automan1]

Dwight & Ron
After receiving J. Still's Weimer Lugers book I found on pg. 262 fig. 82b the identical engraving
of 'GERMANY' on that Luger as on this Parts Carbine Luger, if that means anything.
Bill

 

[automan1]

Ed, Dwight & Ron

I have now posted photos of this 1920 Parts Carbine as you requested.
Any information, feedback, comments or questions by you or any other members of the forum either negative or positive will be appreciated by me.
Bill

 

[Edward Tinker]

Bill, what does it look like with the forearm off of it?

Overall, looks very nice to me,

Ed

 

[automan1]

Ed
With the forearm off there is an extension bar like the 1902 Carbine but with a tapped hole on the bottom of the bar to accept the screw that holds the forearm on. There is a slot in the forearm that the bar fits in.

I classified it as a 1920 Parts Carbine because of the 1920 carbine stock pictured in Kenyon's book which is identical to this stock.

With your knowledge & expertise would you consider it a 1920 Parts Carbine ?
Any comments, feedback, information & questions will be appreciated.
Bill

 

[Edward Tinker]

Wrong guy to ask, Ron Wood knows about these, I have only "held" one.

Ed

 

[Dwight Gruber]

Bill,

I expect that more authoritative folks will post, but here are my observations:

The stock, and particularly the forend, are proportioned differently from those found on Luger carbines; the forend attachment is non-standard; one does not expect to find an Artillery sight on full-out Carbines (as opposed to miscellaneous long-barrelled "Commercials); the American Eagle is out of place on a non-grip-safety Luger; the N of the crown/N proofs all look a little "funny"; the c/N proof on the left receiver would be expected to be upright; the breechblock proof is stamped in a non-standard position; GERMANY is in a non-standard format and position.

My guess--and it is only that--is that this is a very nice, old, gunsmith-made Luger Carbine copy.

--Dwight

 

[Pete E.]

Bill,

I have only seen 6-7 1920's carbines in person over the past 2-3 years and none had an artillery-type sight...all had the carbine-type rear sight.

 

[taudelt]

Charles Kenyon wrote an interesting article in THE GUN REPORT in June of 2002 about Carbines. He talks about a lot of things and does mention that some of what he calls TYPE III have artillery sights. I've only owned one 1920 and found a lot of good info in the article. You might want to check it out.........

 

[Ron Wood]

That's a really cool gun! I seriously doubt that it is a factory creation (I think that Dwight's assessment is pretty much on target). If I were to guess I would think that it was a "cottage industry" (private gunsmith) in Germany, probably in the 1920s, that applied the necessary "proof marks" to legitimize the piece so that it could be sold on the open market. How's that for a WAG?

 

[automan1]

Dwight, Pete & Ron
Do you have Jones's Luger Variations pg. 157. From that information is where I interpeted that this was a 1920 Parts Carbine. If you have that book let me know. If you don't I will try to take a photo of it and if it is readable I'll post it. As for the American Eagle doesn't DWM Stoeger Lugers with non-grip-safety have the American Eagle. I can't make any comment on the proof stampings as I don't know much about them to be honest with you. The GERMANY engraving is shown in Still's Weimer Lugers and stated as such.

What is the criteria for a 1920's Parts Carbine (clarifying and/or descriptive) ?

Dave
Do you know where I might be able to attain that article in THE GUN REPORT ?


Please don't think I'm argumentative I'm only trying to find out more about 1920's Carbines to know what I really have.
Bill