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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I assumed this was manufactured in 1920, Serial No. 1896k, 7.65mm Caliber, 11 3/4 in. barrel, DWM on front toggle, Crown 'N' proofs, no forearm, barrel stamped 'GERMANY', 1902 barrel & front ramp sight, American Eagle on chamber, 100-200 meter naval rear sight, 98%+ condition, very nice contoured stock with black composition buttplate, (2) wood bottom magazines stamped GERMANY. Is this authentic or was it put together from parts? What would be the approximate value either way?
I purchased it eight years ago for $2800.
Bill
 

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Bill

Not to sure on this one but I'll take a poke at it,I believe the only thing that may be correct on your luger is the length of the commercial barrel.

The navy sight doesn't seem to fit in as is the American Eagle on the chamber.



The serial number does not suit the other complexities of this firearm. Sounds like someone took a walk on the wild side with a bunch of parts.

Hope I'm wrong respecting the price and all but who knows, their just seems to be to many 98% pieces popping up lately.

miss spelt American and that's not right so edited
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Lou,
I didn't state anything about a fat barrel (1902 barrel & front ramp sight). That's what I'm trying to find out if this may be classified as a Carbine. 11 3/4 in. long barrel can either
be a long barreled or carbine. All parts are stamped '96'.
Any further feedback is of interest to me.
Bill
 

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Bill

Have looked up info on the 1902 carbine with reported examples of the Amaerican eagle on the chamber. Your serial number and a host of other differences rules out this example.

You do not state whether the luger has dished toggles so with the short frame and receiver this moves us up to post 1906 manufacturing.

Again your serial number and the presence of the (k) suffix rules out all commercial serial number examples of carbines

You state that the luger does not have a forearm but has the short frame and receiver so this leads me to believe that a 11 and 3/4 barrel has been matched to a 1906 American eagle receiver in an attempt to create a 1902 example of a American Eagle carbine.

The presence of the commercial crown N moves us up to the 1920 era or Weimar to be specific and this period is shrouded with mystery.

The navy rear sight that you report is simply not right.

Yes the German people mixed and matched parts during this era and stamped export examples with the Germany stamp but this stamp (Germany) was utilized on 1900 examples of commercial lugers.

Commercial numbering of carbines which I am sure did not utilize the letter suffix. The exception would be the Alphabet DWM lugers reported in Jan C Still's reference Weimar lugers

So to sum things up you have a very interesting example of a mix and match luger with parts from several era's of manufacturing. Based on the other examples of lugers that you have posted it would seem that you have examples of Weimar proofed lugers but as to who did the work on this one I am at a loss to explain.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Lou
I posted this as a 1920 long barreled Luger. It does not have dished toggles. Maybe this will
clear things up a little bit, maybe not. Let me know if you have additional thoughts on this Luger.
Bill
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Lou
I found the book that describes this long barreled Luger. It was published in 1976 'Luger Tips'
page 45 by Michael Reese II. As I this book is 29 years old I wondered if there were any updates since then. As you stated there is no mention of the American Eagle on the chamber in this book.
What are you thoughts on this?
Bill
 

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Bill, Reese's books are nice, but not the one to use as a reference tool. They simply do not go into the depth, and I have been told, that they have inaccurancies in them.

Ed
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ed
I forgot to ask you what book I could use as a referance tool as I have a few Weimar Lugers
including two A.F. Stoeger Lugers. Please suppply the name of the book so that I will purchase
it, then maybe I will not have many questions to ask.
Bill
 

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Bill

Dammit man you got some fine collection,you ask all the question's you want.

The luger in question is most definetly a mix of parts.

The 1902 carbine with the American eagle chamber had the long frame and dished toggles. You absolutely do not have this variation.

The absolute best references in my opinion are the books by Jan C Still, the newer editions have up to date information and Jan continues to post any changes that come to lite on this forum. Kenyon's book lugers at random is also very good as is Harry jones books and Datig's newest edition.

In each of the references you have to view them from the author's perspective and understand what they are trying to tell you.

It takes years to fill in all the blanks and we are all students to the many variations of the luger , however it is forum's such as this one and the forum run by John Dunkle that helps us all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Lou & Ed
I have Kenyon's "Lugers At Random" 1969 and on page 186-187 it describes the 1920 long barreled
Luger with the exceptions of: American Eagle, 100-200 meter naval sight & ramp front sight.
In it is stated 'Often the barrel was installed to the customer's order'.
As this was published 36 years ago you might understand why I asked those questions.
As for books I have Still's "Imperial Lugers" & Kenyon's "Luger: The Multi-National Pistol" both published in 1991. Again, what would be the book that covers Weimer Lugers?
Thanks guys for giving me your knowledge & expertise on some Lugers in my collection.
Bill
 

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quote:Originally posted by Bill Foefl

Again, what would be the book that covers Weimer Lugers?
Bill
Bill, the link above IS for Weimar Lugers by Jan Still.

However, for this particular gun, I doubt you will find exact anything. Lugers made for export in the 1920's were a mixed breed, sometimes totally different than you'd expect. I think this particular one was special order made and shipped...

Pacific Arms order maybe or??
 

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Bill,

Your pistol is what is referred to as a Navy Carbine. I have seen a few of them. Last one was at the Tulsa show a few years ago, it came with a Navy commercial stock. I believe that the eagle on the chamber makes it a little bit more special and valuable. These pistols were imported and sold by retailers such as Stoeger and Pacific Arms during the twenties.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Geo
I'm sorry but I made a mistake in entering what I saw on pg. 262.
It should have been entered under my Parts Carbine which has the 'GERMANY' engraved on the frame.
I'll re-enter it under my Parts Carbine.
Bill
 

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Bill,

Upscreen Lugerlou recommended Fred Datig's "The Luger Pistol" as a reference. Its a great read. As you do, however, keep in mind that this book--even the revision--is 47 years old, and much of its information is out-of-date. There is much good information in it, but in the 21st Century it requires being read with an experienced eye.

--Dwight
 
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