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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This particular luger has been on this forum, and I bought it from one of the members. It is a 1920 (Reichswehr property marked) pistol, more than likely a rework of an imperial pistol. Its serial number has a suffix "k" which means that it could have been made in 1915, 1916, 1917 or 1918.


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The most interesting thing about it (besides it fitting into an empty spot in my collection!) is the circle S on the left side. There has been discussion of the circle S on this forum.

Another interesting item about my limited research is that I have found three Weimar circle S guns in Weimar Lugers by Jan Still, found another on Brocks firearms website, and the three here on this forum and appear to be 1915 or 1916 then weimar reworks.

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Some of the circles are a full circle and some are 3/4. The thing I find odd is that if the 3/4 is a mistake, then wouldn't you find some 3/4, some 1/2, etc?

Also, another interesting fact is that it appears many of these guns are weimar police and also started as 1915 or 1916 DWM's?



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Here is a unit property marking on the rear:

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The sideplate and toggle has the entire 4 digit of the serial number. I have read for dutch guns (not that I beleive this is remotely dutch), that dutch guns in a unit may have the 3rd number stamped if there was a weapon in the armory with the same last two of the serial number.
Download Attachment: 1920_circle_S.jpg
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Peter, that is unknown right now by the collectors I have talked to. It is guessed that is what it is, but I have my doubts.

The doubts could also be turned as possible reasons they are reworks;

1. Simson didn't start making lugers until mid 20's (although they were in existence and it is possible that they were chosen to rework guns).

2. The limited set I have seen are almost all police and imperial reworks.

An interesting enough marking that I am interested in it...

Ed
 

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Ed
Interesting Luger and research.

You found that there is a pattern to the circle S: most are dated 1915 or 1916. Any guess as to why?

"The thing I find odd is that if the 3/4 is a mistake, then wouldn't you find some 3/4, some 1/2, etc?" I must have missed something, is someone suggesting a mistake?
Jan
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Jan, I find it odd that some of the circles are a complete circle, some just 3/4.

Everyone I talk to says it is just a mistake. I don't have a problem with that, except, if a mistake, then wouldn't a stamp, done by hand, be half off the edge at times, instead of either 3/4 and full? My SWAG is that it is a stamp purposely a full circle at one time, and then 3/4, maybe a broken die. But this is a weak SWAG, and I am unsure how much merit it holds.

I will research this a bit closer, look at the ones on the site and see what the proofs and other marks look like.

I am guessing that they belonged to a unit that turned over their weapons to the police after the war, or became police after wars end deativation.

Ed
 

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quote:Originally posted by Ron Smith

Ed, I'll take it! I would think that the 3/4 circle is due to the die overlapping the flute (bevel) on the receiver. And the different sized dies used. Neat Luger!
Ron
Fellows, Ron's answer to the three-quarter circle seems to me to be the obvious answer to why it exists. Is he missing something? Am I missing something? Stamp a circle over the edge of any object and you will get a semicircle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Maybe I am simply missing the obvious. My point was that why was it stamped there? I had initially thought maybe the stamp was different but on reflection, probably not, so I will drop the point.

Appears to be a hurried stamping to me? They didn't seem to care if it was fully stamped, and then, maybe all they cared about was the "S"...

Ed
 

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Ed,

One of the constant things about the circle stamp is that it is applied so as not to overstamp the serial number. It may be not so much a mistake as the most of the circle which can be stamped (intersecting the receiver bevel, as Ron says), without obliterating part of the number.

--Dwight
 
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hey guys im back after a bit of comp problemsdont know if this is any help i have a 1918/1920 erfurt with a circle s although it has been buffed<long ago and once again recently> #9528 no letterblock it would seem that the circle was incomplete it is however in a slightly different place than the pics posted as it is on the bevel<few mm above the one shown>-mack
 
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yes i will put some pice up late tonite.im still very new to lugars but im learnin alot from here.basically i know nothing really about this guy other than its mostly matched been chrome and nickle plated which is now strippedbut it was very very cheaply aquired from a vets widow.now i need to get lookin for a nice one but this sure is a good shooter
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Circle S and a Persian... Does the Circle S mean they were for the department for special requests, i.e. export for the Persian aspect and the police for something away from the regular army line??
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Don, that is a possiblity I hadn't thought of, but then you would see a lot more Circle S stamps. Unless of course it was a certain district and that was convienent to do both at once, federal rules and local rules...
 
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