[Harry]

WANTED....any information on this Navy pistol I have owned for 20 years. According to Costanzo in World of Luger Proofs, the eagle/swastika is early Nazi Navy and is ultra rare (and also faked). The magazine does not have the serial number, but instead the O.2525 number which matches the gripstrap number. Is this correct?

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[Jan C Still]

Harry
Thanks for posting photographs of: 1936 S/42, serial number 3588h, Kriegsmarine eagle (Costanzo page 106) marked on the left receiver and barrel and 0.2525 marked on the front strap. Is the magazine nickel plated or blued? Does the barrel serial number show a halo?

Observations and comments below:

1. When I put together Axis Pistols and Third Reich Lugers I was aware of Costanzo’s list of Kriegsmarine markings. At the time, the Kriegsmarine Eagle marking on your 1936 S/42 was considered a fake and such a fake was reported. Such Lugers with the odd Kriegsmarine markings disappeared into the woodwork. (Also, odd Kriegsmarine eagle markings somewhat similar to that on your 1936 S/42 were engraved/pantographed on some other Nazi pistols. They were later established to be fakes and were thoroughly discredited.) At the time I did these books, I did not think that such markings rose to the level of credibility that warranted publishing in a book (even with a warning).

2. The magazine has had the serial number removed except for the “h” part of the number. Then the 0.2525 property number was added.
This Kriegsmarine magazine is different from all those previously reported. The 0 property number is not usually engraved on the magazine bottom while the “N” property number is. I have not previously observed the serial number removed from the magazine and the property number added in its place.

3. Costanzo shows this marking on page 106 # 134 "1934 MAUSER (navy) eagle. Used by the Nazi’s in their attempt to build up their Naval Fleet. Observed on mid and late K dates and one G date. Ultra rare navy proof, beware of fakes."
I would tend to give the most credit to Costanzo’s last three words.
Jan

 

[RockinWR]

Harry,
* Two comments for what they are worth:
(1) Jan Still, Third Reich Lugers, 1988, Pg. 108 lists a 1936 S/42, S/N 1469L with an "O.2525" property number. This particular S/N also appears on D. Hallock's list. However, Don lists a 1936 S/42, S/N 3588k with an "O.2525" grip strap marking which well might be a transcription error of this pictured example. In any event, seems there are two "O.2525" marked Kriegsmarine P.08's reported.
(2) Your mag picture seems to show a stick winged eagle/63 (sE/63)acceptance. A 1936 S/42, "h" (or even "k") block mag would normally be expected to exhibit a droop winged eagle/63 (dE/63)acceptance. The sE/63 mag acceptance did not first start appearing (very intermittantly) until the "o" or "p" block mags, later on the 1937 "u" block gun acceptances themselves, and seems to be out-of-place on this mag. Am I seeing a sE/63 mag acceptance correctly??
* I believe this is a bright tube, type I, Mauser mag. Is this correct?
* I believe Jan meant the S/N to be 3588h of this example. Just goes to show how easy a typo can occur when repeating numbers. Will you confirm the pistol's S/N including letter block?
Thanks,

 

[Jan C Still]

Bob
Thanks for finding my error, I have corrected the 3580h to 3588h in the above post.
Jan

 

[Harry]

The s/n on the frame below the barrel is 3588k.....see photo......the magazine appears to have an "h" and a stick eagle 63 when it should be a drooped eagle 63...also the mag is blued when it should be nickel plated......and to learn that there are two O.2525 pistols.....this one has a lot of red flags that I missed 20 years ago....sure wish we had the Luger Forum then.

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[Jan C Still]

Harry
Its not easy to send such a message to a fellow collector. The information was known 20 to 30 years ago, but only certain collectors had the knowledge. A large number of very active advanced collectors helped me complete my books. I had the opportunity to put a number of such odd Lugers into my books. I did not based on fellow collectors good advice and my own judgement. Time has indicated that these decisions were correct. However, I did make such a mistake when I included a Japanese Luger in Third Reich Lugers (page 74) against the good advice of others.

It is intended that these boards make information concerning such suspect or replica lugers available to the members. The collectors on this forum have been forthcoming with such information and I hope this will help prevent bad purchases in the future. The fact is that some of the advanced collectors on this Forum have a better eye than I at spotting replica Lugers.
Jan

 

[Guest]

Harry
I suspect the 1936-S/42 K-Marine Luger number 1469L with the O.2525 is the correct one. In my opinion, the blue body magazine bodies started to be replaced with nickel magazine bodies during the very late - L - block/early - M - of the 1936 production. All 1936-S/42 Lugers will have a DE-63 (Drooped Eagle) acceptance mark on the magazine and pistol. During the 1937-S/42 production the straight wing Eagle 63 "SE-63" (Stick Eagle) appeared on the blue body magazine bottoms during the - R - block. Early records may not be totally accurate, but it would appear as if the stick eagle 63 acceptance did not appear on the pistol until the late - u - or early - w - production block of 1937. Any Luger magazine will actually describe the date and toggle code of the pistol that it was originally issued with.

 

[Pete E.]

Just wondering if Harry's gun still has collector value (albeit not at the higher value of a Navy piece...) as a standard 1936 S/42 pistol ?

Or has the placement of the faked Navy markings relegated this pistol down to mere shooter value ?

 

[Harry]

I sold the 1936 Navy with the bogus KM markings as a parts gun. Doug Coffee bought it and has parted out the frame to John Martz. So it will never surface again to fool another collector.