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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, does the suffix on the mag. match the one on the luger frame or can they be a different letter and still be from the same gun? I'm looking at one with the frame having ser# 856 and a "u" under it, the magazine has "85 6" off center to the left and "e" under it ..the "856" on the mag. is not spaced the same between the numbers...is this correct or has someone sanded and stamped this, trying to pass it off as original...? thanks, Robert
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks, That is what I thought...Just wanted to make sure before I pass on the luger...I belong to a 1911 forum..and I can tell by reading some of the older posts...that you guys are a knowledgeable and friendly bunch...I look forward to learning a lot from everyone...thanks for you help...If anyone has or knows of an All original matching rig for sale let me know..(really want to get a 1942 black widow rig w/ match mags..to offset my 1942 Colt 1911A1) thanks again, Robert
 

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Robert, if you are lucky enough to pick up a nice byf 42 with original Black Bakelite Grips, the correct magazines are those with black plastic bottoms and marked "fxo". The Germans pretty much stopped matching magazines to the pistol in mid to late 1941.
 

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Robert,

Is the Luger a commercial gun, that is, does it have a crown-over-N stamped on the left side of the chamber? If so, does it have numbers stamped on the front grip strap? If it has these characteristics, and you pass on its purchase, other members on this Forum might like to know where it is available.

--Dwight
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
It's not a commercial Luger, sorry..no crown-over--N stamped....I have been trying to decide if I need to buy this one...the mag. does not match..it has been sanded and stamped and the letter does not match..It does have a 1937 holster with it....finishh is stated at between 90-95%..what do you think fair price would be for this 1937 rig..thanks, Robert
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I'm learning quickly....just like 1911's there are a lot of fakes and misrepresented lugers out there...shame, someone is always trying to scam you....that's why I enjoy forums...they can save you from being taken to the cleaners...
 

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robo 5368

Well now welcome to the forum. I for one would not pass on a 90 to 95% luger with a 1937 holster just because it has a non matching magazine.

Forced matched magazines do happen from time to time and as this forum has pointed out it just simply offsets the value a bit, not a great lot but a hundred or so and two forced mags will greatly affect the price.

My concern with this luger would be to examine every piece to see what else is out of sequence, ie the small parts.

Also as the other fellows have pointed out should you pass they are interested, anyway good luck on your decision and the 1911 are one mighty fine piece of craftsmanship in thier own right.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
There were no duplicate matching serial number and suffix letter correct magazines for different production years. Either Mauser had this figured out or the changes in configuration spelled the difference. For example
1934 K-S/42 - Nickel body, solid base O-37 acceptance until about 3500 than B-90 to the end of the K-Dates. Basic description code 1-MM-O37 or 1-MM-B90
1935 G-S/42 - Nickel body, solid base B-90, DE-154, DE-211 and DE-63
Basic description code 1-MM-B90, 1-MM-DE1, !-MM-DE2 or 1-MM-DE6
1936 S/42 - Nickel body, until the late - L - block changed to a blue body, solid base with a DE-63 acceptance. Basic description code 1-MM-DE6 until the blue body mags appeared then 2-MM-DE6
1937 S/42 - Blue body (few nickel), solid base DE-63 acceptance until the - r - block becomes SE-63 acceptance. 2-MM-DE6 or 2-MM-SE6
1938 S/42 - Blue body, solid base SE-63 until the SE-83 inspector appears about the - G - block.
Basic description code 2-MM-SE6 or 2-MM-SE8
About this point in production there may be a chance of confusion if one does not understand Mauser Luger and magazines numbering and the use of the letter suffix. The reason being is because this is the only period where the magazine configuration is the same and the letter suffix is duplicated p, q, r, s, t, u, v and w. RE 1937 and 1939 (blue body, solid base and SE-63). The key to identification will be the size of the 63 under the stick eagle. It will become slightly larger on the 1939-S/42 magazines and continue to grow as the 1939-42 magazines appear in the - Q - block.
1939-S/42 - Blue body, solid base and slightly larger 63 on the pistol and magazine.
Basic description 2-MM-SE6M the - M - indicates a slightly larger 63.
1939-42 - Blue body, solid base and large 63 under the stick eagle (Q - W).
Basic description 2-MM-SE6L Now the 63 is a lot bigger than normal
1939-42 - Blue body, solid base SE-63 changes to SE-655 in the - W - block. Either might be found
until the end of the 1939-42 Luger production in the - Z - block
Basic description 2-MM-SE6L or 2-MM-SE5
1940-42 - 122 code magazines appear. concave pinned aluminum base, extruded type blue body with a E-37 and 122 code (C.G. Haenel) Early 122 code magazines will be found with an additional SE-37 on the magazine base. Without going into great detail the additional SE-37 will be found located on the top center or center right of the magazine base. Consequently, you will find four magazine configurations in the early 1940-42 pistols. These three variations of the 122 code magazine were common until about the - F - block and the SE-655 magazine (2-MM-SE5) was used until the - D - block (last one I have recorded).
Basic descriptions 3-MM-122, 3-MM-122 TC, 3-MM-122 CR or 2-MM-SE5
41-byf & 41-42 - The 122 code magazine will be used until near the end of the - O - block. The first fxo extruded type magazine with the concave pinned aluminum base appeared at the very end of the - O - block. This magazine had the upside down P 08 mark. I suspect this indicated a Haenel sub-contractor. This magazine was short lived and was followed by the later fxo magazine with the rightside up P 08 mark in the late - Q - block. Basic description upside down P 08 - 4-MM-fxo
As we approach June of 1941 (my opinion) the new type fxo magazines with the black plastic base appeared along with the black plastic grips. I believe that Mauser made an attempt to number these black plastic bases but found it time consuming and expensive due to breakage, etc. The end result being, Mauser severly curtailed the numbering of all Luger magazines after the - U - block of 1941. During the past 25 years, I have only recorded 7 or 8 fxo magazines with a - w, x, y or z suffix. All of the - Y - block magazines were 1942 Banner magazines. If you have any fxo magazines with these suffix letters, I would be interested in the information.
Basic descriptions - rightside up P 08 mark is a 5-MM-fxo or with a black plastic base 6-MM-fxo. The reason for the codes is to eliminate great detail in describing a Luger magazine. For example a 1-MM-DE1+ describes a 1935 G-S/42 magazine with a solid aluminum base, nickel body, DE-154 acceptance and it's the second magazine as indicated by the +.
I'm the guy who is always hunting for Luger magazine numbers. Keep in mind, another collector may be looking for that orphan magazine you have, give me the details and together we will hunt for the original Luger. I hope my thoughts will provide a better understanding of Mauser Luger magazines. Feel free to correct or comment upon my errors. Thanks & Good Luck - For additional info [email protected]
 

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Fellow Collectors,
* I've made it no secret how strongly I endorse & use Don's codification scheme. A synthesis of over 40 years of Luger collecting and magazine hunting which is becoming a virtually universal vinacular when discussing Luger mags now-a-days IMO.
* The streamline mag ID code and S/N breakpoints are prima facia reading/understanding in this day of "forced matching" mag representations as original. Hopefully it will allow all of us to avoid being burnt on future WWII Army matching mag Luger acquisitions.

Jan/Ed,
* I suggest we "sticky" this post somewhere high in the 1933-1945: Mauser Luger, Army, Navy, Police forum for quick future reference. An alternate is the 1933-1945: Luger Holsters-Magazine forum. Is this acceptible? What do you think??

Don,
* Thanks for your dedicated research & post.
 

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Gentlemen, I have been a believer in the "Hallock" Luger Identification Methodology since Don introduced it to me.

This is a good, logical identification technique and the more people that support Don's effort, the better we will understand the whole Luger Story!!

I would encourage all the membership to take some time and send YOUR Luger Magazine Data to Don.
 
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