Jan C. Still Lugerforums banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,743 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Submitted for your inspection is my example of a extremely nice luger and its holster along with some small difference from what has been previously presented on this forum. This is not to imply that either one of the examples posted is wrong or questionable but rather small difference can be found on different examples in production. Just some diminutive differences. This example rates at a original 99.9% blue and 99.9% straw so after one's detailed study of both proper examples presented, there shouldn't be as much confusion as to what might be proper and what should be judged questionable . Provide you have a opportunity to examine one, that is. Sorry that my capabilities with the camera is not what I would have wished but there you have it. If one has never gazed upon a $1000 holster then this is your opportunity to do so .

Download Attachment: holster front.JPG
112.47 KB

Download Attachment: holster rear.JPG
118.84 KB

Download Attachment: stitch pattern.JPG
144.85 KB I have detailed this element as all of Eger & Linde holsters have this "U" stitch pattern on the closure strap. Whenever I come across this pattern I never fail to examine the holster in detail and neither should you.

Download Attachment: inside holster markings.JPG
151.09 KB The marking read from left to right top to bottom ; H.Eger & Linde, Seligenthal/TH ,1939.

Download Attachment: LW 2 proofmark.JPG
151.95 KB Although faint, it is still there and should be where it is suppose to be.

Download Attachment: pistol left side.JPG
138.86 KB

Download Attachment: left side close up.JPG
121.23 KB

Download Attachment: toggle top.JPG
126.88 KB

Download Attachment: chamber date.JPG
103.29 KB The number 8 is not as canted as other examples but close examination shows the 8 is higher than the rest of the numbers.

Download Attachment: frame front.JPG
97.13 KB

Download Attachment: inside bevel toggle.JPG
96.43 KB As have been stated previously , the beveled edge on the inside of toggle knob is not found with any other manufacturers of lugers.

Download Attachment: stock lug.JPG
105.43 KB The mill work with the inside slot cuts of this stock lug is only found on Kreighoff lugers.

Download Attachment: ramp heat treatment.JPG
141.84 KB This heat treatment color feature is shown as it should be present on all pre 1940 Krieghoff's if not later on some variations.

Download Attachment: pistol right side.JPG
106.92 KB

Download Attachment: right side proofs.JPG
121.52 KB Notice any difference with the proof marks ???

Download Attachment: loading tool.JPG
148.8 KB

Download Attachment: extruded magazine.JPG
130.22 KB This extruded magazine which came with the gun is for the Kreighoff's and is unmarked in any way save for the serial number and one LW2 proof that is found on the magazine bottom. Download Attachment: magazine bottom.JPG
74.04 KB This is the magazine which came with the gun when purchased but have been told that the magazine belongs to a 1940 example which was stolen off of Harold Skinner's table at a gunshow many years ago. I feel that these two lugers, 9911 and 10101 were on the same table at one time and the magazines were mixed at that time. So 10101 was stolen and buried deeply I am sure but if someone has this luger and with 9911 magazine I will trade without any questions asked. For sure !

Download Attachment: early magazine.JPG
120.61 KB Shown is an example of a nickled sheet metal magazine found with early examples of Kreighoff lugers, just in case you run across one of these and question whether its real or not.

Download Attachment: early mag bottom.JPG
79.89 KB
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,743 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It has been suggested that my opening statement was casting disparaging doubts upon other postings found on this forum. Nothing could be further from the truth. It was my intent to show differences in production /markings that can be found on multiple examples of the same variation. My newly revised opening statement clearly reflects my purpose and should leave no doubt in one's mind as to my original objectives. I trust that I caused no serious consternation on my part with the members.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,405 Posts
John (James)
Thanks changing the mistaken communication and for your post clearing up your intent. Unfortunately a member was angered and deleted all his posts. Lets hope that he reconsiders and reposts.
Jan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Hello John,

I would also like to join Jan in saying thank you for editing your post. I’m certain that whoever might have been previously offended; he will repost his original thread once he locates it (Oh – that would be me – I’ll try to find it in a few moments and repost it in my original thread – it may take some time if I have to re-load the photos, however).

What I will add is that when Jan stated that a Member was “angered”, perhaps is a mild understatement, as I am sure Jan will attest. For that, Jan assured me that your intentions were forthright and your only interest was to have other Members view the subtle differences in this somewhat rare HK variation. In fact, he told me you are a terrific individual and had only the best interests of this Forum at heart. So, my thanks are extended as well to Jan for his patience and perseverance in a somewhat “sticky wicket”.

On topic and back to your 1938 – yours is an outstanding example of a very rare 1938 HK. Without question, it is correct in every detail. As well, your presentation is tremendous and your notations are very good. As you, I look forward to other’s posts on the differences that you note and others are able to find.

Again, my sincerest congratulations on owning and presenting your Krieghoff in terrific fashion.

As importantly and again, my sincerest thanks for your clarifications to your original post.

With Best Regards Always,

- John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,173 Posts
Hi J. James and John D.,

Shouldn't a magazine numbered # 10101 have its LWaA stamping right-side up, either above or below the serial number ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,743 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I would consider my opinion not the last word on the subject of Kreighoff's but I would venture to say that the magazines that I am aware at least, have the LW2 proof above the serial number and positioned so as the eagle is facing away from the serial number and towards the forward edge of magazine body.
 

·
Gold Bullet Member 2012
Joined
·
6,139 Posts
2551, 3461, 5229, 7661, 9466, 9618 and both 10515 mags have the acceptance upside down. 11120,11597, and 11646 is rightside up. All are above the serial number. Based on this small sample I would think 10101 is correct.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Here''s my $0.000002, as it's a great question....

First, I’ll caution that collectors should not use the serial number of the matched HK to determine a “cut off” date. Given the tendency of Krieghoff to disperse serial numbers outside a given chamber date range (look at the span of serialized “1937” production; for example), assigning proper magazine “proofing” techniques to a “serial range” is grossly misleading and inaccurate.

Rather, to understand what is more commonly found, you have to look at the magazine type first and it’s correlation to the LWaA as employed on that specific HK. Second, you have to understand the iterations of HK magazines, and when they were used by the factory. For Military Production it was as follows:

rolled/plated -> rolled/blued -> extruded/plated - > extruded/blue
All of these have the aluminum base with the exception of the last iteration “extruded/blue” which included predominately the Aluminum base, but in the final stages (“late” 1944 and 1945 HK) included the plastic base.

OK – let’s take that magazine time line above and try to match production year chamber dates against it:

rolled/plated -> rolled/blued -> extruded/plated - > extruded/blue
G date -1936 -> 1937 ->1937 – 1938 -> 1940/41/42/43/early 44

Now – for “1936” and “1937” production, even these are not absolutes, as some “1936” production may have the Haenel extruded/plated magazines).

Still with me? Good…..

Here we go - in general terms:

- Nearly all PLATED (rolled and/or extruded) HK mags will have the serial number on the base and the LWaA 1 above and upside down (towards the “front” of the mag). Since the magazine types appear on the preponderance of HK volume, some collectors mistakenly have come to the conclusion that “this” type of proof is the only HK correct magazine proof placement/serial combination. However;

- The ONLY mag variation where LWaA 1 should appear UNDER the serial number is on the ROLLED/BLUED variation magazines (predominantly in the same orientation as the serial number, ie right-side-up). This magazine variation primarily occurs during production year “1937”, but again – caution on trying to assign a “serial number” cut-off or cut-in – as it’s impossible;

- The only other mag variation the LWaA should appear “right side up” should be extruded/blue marked “122” (LWaA Stage 1 early or late) – and that too, should be “above” the serial number (towards the front of the mag). See John J's attachment above for reference of this variation.

Hope this helps,

John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,173 Posts
Chris,

Unfortunately, many of the older posts have lost their links and photo files...probably with the updates to the Gun Boards over the years.

Much of Jan Still's work he presented in the early days have lost their photo/links, too.

In some cases, an Owner will go back and delete photos of a gun he may have once owned but sold off, too.

Lesson here : If something (a photo is important), save a copy to your hard disk.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
253 Posts
agreed!!
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top