[Guest]

I first want to thank "Lloyd in Vegas" and "Policeluger" for responding to my very first post. I don't know about others but even though I am very computer literate it was still intimidating to initially figure out how, where and when to post.

I have enclosed pics of a 1938 S/42. Serial# 5592X ( the X is larger than the serial number as I hope can be seen in photo. I really don't see any other markings. The pistol seems so good looking that it looks almost unreal. Did someone make repos?

Thanks

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[Frank]

John, the large "X" behind the serial number indicates the Luger is a Russian capture. It has been dipped blued for preservation. While it has historical significance, it is considered a "shooter" in many circles!

 

[Guest]

I correct myself, there was a suffix in the front under the barrel. I believe it is like a "V". Similar to what I saw at the lugerforum.com http://www.lugerforum.com/Suffixes/Suffixes_files/page0007.htm
I noticed that the V is 1940 Dutch. What is it doing on a 1938.
Maybe I'm not getting something here?




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[aaron]

You have not mentioned whether your Luger has matching numbers. All 1938 Lugers have suffix letters after the serial number starting with "b" and ending with "n". Since your frame bears the letter "v" it would appear that the frame is not original to the rest of the pistol, and that it is indeed a parts rework.

 

[Frank]

Aaron, I'm with you. The frame appears to have the "Mauser Hump" so it has to be from a 1937, 1939 or 1941 year Luger.

It's difficult to tell from the photos, but it appears the numbered parts do not match.

 

[Guest]

Please excuse my ignorance but I am not understanding. All my numbers match but the only letter (suffix) is the "flying V" on the front of the frame, number matches on barrel above it. There are no other visible letters except for the overlarge "X" next to the S# on the left side of the receiver. Is this a rework or a Russian capture or both? Please again excuse my questioning, but I really do want to learn. I research constantly but it is a good example of not knowing enough to ask intelligent questions.

Thanks

 

[holster_collector]

Hi,
I can not quite see the details on your luger in the photos so will comment on your text comments. First, the X you mention, if on the left side of the receiver/chamber and in front of the four digits of the serial number that are stamped there, probably indicates this luger is one of those imported in the 1990s and nicknamed "Russian capture luger". Actually, that is an incorrect designation because there was no Russia to capture lugers during WW2 although these may have been purchased in the 1990s from Russia or the Ukraine or some other part of the former Soviet Union. Many of these lugers have this X stamped on them in that location.

Second, if it looks like new, that is probably because this group of imported lugers was finished over the original finish with a brown/blue finish nicknamed "dip blue". Actually, I do not know the process by which it was applied, whether dipped or otherwise, but they have a non-factory finish on them.

Third, your holster resembles the large number of holsters imported from Norway that had four holes in the back to accommodate a belt attaching fixture. The original German belt loops look like those that have been added to your holster after the Norwegian fixture was removed. The four holes are plugged but can still be seen on the back of your holster. BML is the German manufacturer's code and 41 indicates it was manufactured in 1941. As a side note, a large number of original lugers was also imported from Norway over a decade ago as were the holsters.

Fourth, if all the serial numbers match the last two digits of your pistol's full serial number, the pistol probably has all its factory original parts, except for the grip panels and the magazine. The original grip panels were also serialized to the gun (on the reverse) but the Soviets removed them and jumbled them. The same for the magazines.

Enjoy your luger!
Dave

 

[aaron]

Most of this type of rebuilt/reclaimed/dip blued Luger have been force matched. I am sure that this is the case with this pistol and with better photos it would probably appear obvious.

 

[Guest]

WOW! This is great! This is helping fill in some holes.
This pistol belonged to my Dad and was in a collection of weapons I just inherited.
My Dad was a Cop for 46 years. Back in the late 80's he got to know several West German (previous East German) Police officers.( at least that is a story I heard) Maybe, somehow there is a connection?

My Dad and I weren't very close and didn't talk much but when he died he left all his collectables to me to figure out. Of course, no instructions, no information. I have an education ahead of me in finding out the history of the pieces, as well as, the history of the collection.

Now, getting back to the Luger. If there is any interest in looking at higher resolution pictures I have them. I am willing, if there is a need, to share these photos if it will help other to understand the "other history" of the Luger.

If I am understanding correctly, I have a Luger thats all pieces and parts? Therefore, its monetary value is severly damaged? What about its pratical value? Is it still in the shooting class of a true S/42?

Thanks for the patience to explain and make this forum a true educational experience!

 

[Edward Tinker]

TS; Many collectors feel these "russian capture" are just shooter category, eventually I beleive many of them will gain more of a status.

But shooters still command $450-$600 depending on where you live.

Ed

 

[holster_collector]

quote:Originally posted by aaron

Most of this type of rebuilt/reclaimed/dip blued Luger have been force matched. I am sure that this is the case with this pistol and with better photos it would probably appear obvious.

In my examination of these imported eastern bloc lugers (over 100 at the time of arrival of the imports), I have seen mixed parts on the pre-Mauser era lugers but largely original factory parts (maybe with a replaced holdopen or sideplate) on the Mauser lugers (including this S/42). When the parts were force matched, they were crudely electropenciled or the original s/n was simply stippled out. It is easy to tell if they are mix parts guns. Take a look at this one, and see if the parts look like stamped factory numbers. Most of the late date (37-42) ones are all or nearly all original parts. The WW1-era pistols tend to be full of replaced parts.
Dave

 

[holster_collector]

quote:If I am understanding correctly, I have a Luger thats all pieces and parts? Therefore, its monetary value is severly damaged? What about its pratical value? Is it still in the shooting class of a true S/42?

The grip panels are probably not original factory for this gun but probably came from another luger--that is standard on the Russian imports. However, if your father got the gun from EG police, it could retain its original grips (I have one that retained one of its two grip panels--go figure). Without further details, the information you have provided suggests all the metal parts are matched and original--several Russian imports were all matching original and I have a 1937 S/42 naval luger that is that way--no electropenciled replaced parts.

I would not disparage your luger. It is a great gun with a great history and has, since its arrival here in the US, already grown in value. I believe that will continue.

And, yes, it is a true S/24 and likely a good shooter. However, be careful with it--some parts can be fragile.

Dave

 

[Frank]

Dave, the 1938 S/42 Luger production ended with the N-Block. This Luger has a serial number in the V-Block. There is no way, that I can see, to justify the parts were all originally assembled from the factory. It is a mixed parts Luger, that happens to have the same numerical part of the serial number!! The frame is from a 1937, 1939 or 1941 Luger!!!

 

[Vlim]

Hi,

Lugers that were imported from Russia after 1994 will not have any proof marks, additional to the gun's original proof marks (except for US import marks, perhaps).

The reason for this is that in 1994, the Russian Federation joined the CIP, the European firearms proof association. CIP members recognize each other's proofs and therefore do not reproof guns imported from other CIP members. The same story goes for the former DDR, which became part of the CIP because of it's unification with Western Germany in 1990.

Unfortunately, this makes it much more difficult to retrace the steps of European imports and exports over the last 10 years.

If this particular gun (with a later frame, as Frank correctly stated) came on the German market through Eastern Germany after 1990, or Russia or Hungary after 1994, then it will most likely not have any additional proof marks.

In contrast, I have an Eastern German VoPo that was imported into West-Germany in 1989 and has a Koln proof house mark and a 1989 date-letter combination, as well as the name of the import company and the caliber marked on the barrel. Most parts have been matched to the frame, somepart have even been restruck with their original matching number!. Electo-penciled force-match on firing pin and some smaller parts have crossed-out non-matching numbers. Parts are mainly from a WW1 DWM, with a 1936 Mauser receiver. Gun fires 1" groups on 12 yards. Dull salt-blue refinish.

I also have a Russian capture import from after 1994, which has a replacement barrel, from DDR-stock with crown/N proof and no further Western-German proofs. Apart from the barrel, all small parts are matching, including the firing pin. A number of these guns were rebuilt, damaged or worn parts replaced, new wooden Nill-grips and new springs fitted and bright black salt-dip reblued. A matching 02/1001 extruded mag was supplied. These guns were (and still are) sold through Frankonia, Germany for 700 - 900 Euro.

My guess is that your Dad picked the luger up at one of Germany's gun dealers, as it features relatively commonly available parts, as well as the Norwegian holster.

The Norwegian army continued to use the Luger well throughout the 1970s and were responsible for the fact that the P08 has a NATO parts number After 1980, the holsters made their way onto the European market, with replaced loops, as the Norwegians had modified them to be used with metal clamps on US-style belts.

 

[holster_collector]

quote:Originally posted by Frank

Dave, the 1938 S/42 Luger production ended with the N-Block. This Luger has a serial number in the V-Block. There is no way, that I can see, to justify the parts were all originally assembled from the factory. It is a mixed parts Luger, that happens to have the same numerical part of the serial number!! The frame is from a 1937, 1939 or 1941 Luger!!!

Thanks for the note--I did not have my s/n list with me. It can't be a 1938 Mauser frame.

Original production run of 1938 Mauser S/42 lugers: about 400b to 4500n for a total of around 113,800 lugers as estimated in Still's reference.

Interesting rework. By the way, it has been some years since lugers were imported and appeared in the surplus houses here in the US. Are there any more lurking out there in sufficient quantity to appear on the market in the future? Does anyone know?

Dave

 

[Mark]

Dave,

I know that Brocks had imported a number of these Lugers about two years ago. The two I received were all matching except the grips which were the East German "bullseye" variation.

The two Lugers were a "K" date and a 41/42 date. I had the "K" date restored. May not be original but dang nice looking!

I don't think we are going to see many more of these "dipped" guns in the future, I hear even the WWII P38 supply is exhausted.

Mark

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