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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Would like some help/info on a "36" Krieghoff, s/n 4025. I have not taken it completely apart but have removed the grips and slide. From what could be seen, in comparison to what Gibson described/illustrated, all seems normal as to serialization, proof and acceptance stamps.


Download Attachment: K36-left.jpg
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Download Attachment: K36-right.jpg
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Right side proofs.

Download Attachment: K36-det-proofs.jpg
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Barrel underside with frame serial.


Download Attachment: K36-barrel.jpg
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And now the interesting part:

Download Attachment: K36-top.jpg
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As can be seen, the HK logo does not correspond to that which Gibson
specifies, i.e. Die Type C-1 (Gibson Page 82.)

Is there a rational explanation for seeming inconsistancy? Could the HK be bogus?

Help please, Bruce
 

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Bruce,

Absolutely outstanding..... Also - I'd really like to know about any proofs/numbers under the grips (right side especially). Yours looks to be in wonderful condition, and while the straw appears "strong" compared to the blue - my guess it's the photos (given the right side pic with the fire-blued mag release, which is "strong" as well).

Bruce - outstanding "36" HK!

As well - when you detail strip, please post more photos..!

Also - I'm interested in the MAG stamping of the numerals - especially in the "2" and it compares to the "2" on the left of the receiver in the shape and serifs (note the "top/left" serif of the "2" on the mag). Maybe of a close up of the serail number would be great! As well - does this have a witness mark?

Thanks for sharing your "36" with the rest of us!

John D.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
John D

There is a "7" just above and to the left of the top of the mainspring on the right side of the frame under the grip. There is also a "7" on the inside of the side-plate.

The serifs on the 2s look similar under a 10x loupe. I say that because the numbers on the mag are deeper struck and thus show minor variance.

There is no witness mark. the lighter color is a reflection and not really that way.

Download Attachment: K36-barrel-bot.jpg
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Any thing else for the moment? Thanks for showing interest.

Bruce
 

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brucew
JohnD is the residential expert on Krieghoffs.
Beautiful photographs of a "36" Krieghoff. You have a scarce Krieghoff in beautiful condition. The production of the "36" is only 500.
Thanks
Jan
 

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Bruce............ Love dem Krieghoffs and yours is a real beauty......and with a matching mag........ If I was you, I would buy a lottery ticket soon...... Great find and thanks for posting.
 

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Hi Bruce!

Outstanding follow-up to your presentation..! First, a few notes about your comments...

The number "7" sounds absolutely correct.. It's considered to be an inspectors stamp, and Mr. Gibson notes that that the "7" in noted in the Military range from approximately serial number 4080 through 6400 (I'll check his book tonight, but I believe those are the ranges?). Given the span of the shorted production of "36", as Jan notes correctly - it is estimated to be a total run of 500. However, I've also seen the "7" appear in several HKs in the 3000 range (under the “36” serialized range as well) and some "post war" variations. Yours is exactly correct. For that, given the serial numbers of yours, it also implies how HK produced/approved and dated Lugers for Military production.

As for the side plate also having a "7"inside - in that regard, that should be considered correct as well, especially in your serial range. As you know, HK moved from external numbering to internal (in the earlier “S” variations), and on your "36" any external numbering would be incorrect. As for only the "7" on the inside of your plate - my guess is that it's the same digit/stamp that you see on the inside/right of the frame you noted. If not - I'd really like to see its location and orientation, but based on other side-plates, while a "7" is not often encountered, they are correct as well.

Finally - you anticipated *exactly* why I was asking about the "2" on your MAG!! If it's stuck deep, you are absolutely correct that it will show a slightly exaggerated serif, and the digits will look “heavy”. In addition, the proof/type of your MAG looks exactly correct for a “36” variation.

Bruce - yours looks like a terrific, and rarer variation ("36"), of a Krieghoff..!!! Terrific presentation and follow-up! Thanks!!!!

John
 

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Hi Bruce!

Outstanding follow-up to your presentation..! First, a few notes about your comments...

The number "7" sounds absolutely correct.. It's considered to be an inspectors stamp, and Mr. Gibson notes that that the "7" in noted in the Military range from approximately serial number 4080 through 6400 (I'll check his book tonight, but I believe those are the ranges?). Given the span of the shorted production of "36", as Jan notes correctly - it is estimated to be a total run of 500. However, I've also seen the "7" appear in several HKs in the 3000 range (under the “36” serialized range as well) and some "post war" variations. Yours is exactly correct. For that, given the serial numbers of yours, it also implies how HK produced/approved and dated Lugers for Military production.

As for the side plate also having a "7"inside - in that regard, that should be considered correct as well, especially in your serial range. As you know, HK moved from external numbering to internal (in the earlier “S” variations), and on your "36" any external numbering would be incorrect. As for only the "7" on the inside of your plate - my guess is that it's the same digit/stamp that you see on the inside/right of the frame you noted. If not - I'd really like to see its location and orientation, but based on other side-plates, while a "7" is not often encountered, they are correct as well.

Finally - you anticipated *exactly* why I was asking about the "2" on your MAG!! If it's stuck deep, you are absolutely correct that it will show a slightly exaggerated serif, and the digits will look “heavy”. In addition, the proof/type of your MAG looks exactly correct for a “36” variation.

Bruce - yours looks like a terrific, and rarer variation ("36"), of a Krieghoff..!!! Terrific presentation and follow-up! Thanks!!!!

John
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hi John,

I didn't mean to imply that only a "7" was inside the sideplate. As can be seen from the picture, there is also the serial and acc. stamps.

Download Attachment: K36-in-sideplate.jpg
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You may also notice a very faint "4" just to the right and slightly above the "7". I have no idea as to the significance of this; perhaps you can enlighten me.

Thanks again for your interest and analysis,

Bruce
 

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Hi Bruce!!!

No - I didn't mean to imply that the "7" should be the *only* digit stamped inside the sideplate, either! So much for Internet posting :) I would still be interested if your's is similiar to the die stamp inside the right grip - which again, I suspect it should be....

In short - with your picture, your's is absolutely correct. The "7" digit being, in yours - where others have been witnessed as well. The "4" (I agree - it looks like a "4" (or perhaps a "1"?) to me as well) is something I haven't seen, but since "7" internally stamped plates are rarer, I'm not certain if it's (the 4 or the "1") been noted previously. So, let me step back from the "4" (or 1) as of now, until I have some more documentation (ummm - compiling Krieg research is not for the feint of heart, so please don't expect an answer in the next day or two!!! ;) )

In any event - the LWaA proofs and serialized digits on your "36" sideplate are exactly correct, as are the machining marks (which do vary from manufacturer).

And again - my thanks for your patience and photos!! They are simply outstanding - as is your "36"!!!

John
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hi again John,

Please note the following picture:

Download Attachment: K36-sear-safe-7.jpg
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Comparing pictures, one will note that the "7"s are not exactly the same on the frame and side-plate. Do not know what that means.

Also of interest in this picture is that the sear bar safety lever is numbered, contrary to what Gibson says (top of page 105.) Also of interest is that the number is on the inside and on the bottom.

These things may give you something to mull over for the weekend!

Thanks again,

Bruce
 

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Bruce....

Outstanding!!! Your "7" looks almost "double struck" on the leg?? The "7" on the frame typically is sort of "bent", in other words...

The serif/overhang at the top is at right angles to the "top" - which your plate and frame have... Now - I'll try to describe the rest - (and take a picture of my "36", but that "7" isn't struck as deeply as yours, but has the similiar "pattern"...) From the "top line" of the seven, the descender should start to about 1/4 of the way down, almost at 90 degrees from the top, then - angle sharply in?

Also, regarding your safety stamp - Mr Gibon's excellent research work on Kriegs does have some areas which could be further enhanced and updated - but, I think you'll find that yours is absolutely correct - and in fact, I have a 1940 which is so marked as well. I'm not aware of any post 1942s (verified) that also have that - but I wouldn't be surprised to learn of such a piece. There are also other areas of Gibson that deserve to be updated (holsters, frames, cut-overs on variations of the LWaA, etc.). However - for all that, his book, knowledge and research are simply outstanding, and form the basis for most of what we know about HKs in today's collecting community, and without his excellent efforts, whould have little basis of comparision...

Your "36" is simply OUTSTANDING!!!
 

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quote:Originally posted by John D

There are also other areas of Gibson that deserve to be updated (holsters, frames, cut-overs on variations of the LWaA, etc.). However - for all that, his book, knowledge and research are simply outstanding, and form the basis for most of what we know about HKs in today's collecting community, and without his excellent efforts, whould have little basis of comparision...
Yes, I'm waiting ~~smiling~~

Ed
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I wish to thank you all for your kind words concerning my "36" HK. I must single out John D for the time and effort of his detailed explanations concerning the peculiarities of this specific HK.

Again, my thanks.

Bruce
 
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