41/42 Luger with miss stamped serial number?

933 Views 19 Replies 9 Participants Last post by Edward T, 5 mo ago

Caz97

Discussion Starter · 5 mo ago

7

Bought this Luger a year ago and just started the deep dive on these magnificent weapons. The issue I currently am having is these weird serial numbers don’t add up along with other missing stamping that should be done on this Luger.
on the under side of the barrel it 75with a dash though it along with 68. Below those two numbers there’s 882.
On the left side of the frame it’s missing the p08 stamp but on the right and side it has the stamps p08 along with 9 mm Germany, sarco stirig NJ. Important note All components are matching on the frame
On the barrel/receiver assembly it has the same number 75 and 68 crossed out again but with another serial number of 8558 not crossed.
on the toggle assemble it has looks like someone stamped a 5 over a 6. Also the extractor and firing pin having numbers contains 68. But all other components contain 58.
Everything else checks out with proof marks and serial numbers besides the issues stated. I don’t believe this is a fake due to this type of Luger ain’t rare. I’ve spent 2-3 weeks trying to figure this out on my own and I would love to find some closure on why this weapons is this way.
-Caz

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Vlim

· #2 · 5 mo ago

It is what's called a VoPo Luger. Reworked and re-used by Eastern Germany after WW2.

They used and re-used existing parts as well as newly made parts to refurbish and rebuild existing P08 pistols.

Reactions: 3

Rich

· #3 · 5 mo ago

Caz, I believe you have what is known as a VOPO Luger, an abbreviation for Volks Polizei, German for People's Police, commonly know as the Communist East German Police. Many of these weapons were made up of surplus Russian captured parts and cobbled together into serviceable pistols. Yours appears to be made up of a WW 1 era Erfurt lower and a WW 2 era Mauser upper. The 882 under the barrel is the bore diameter. It is a "mix master".

Caz97

Discussion Starter · #4 · 5 mo ago

Vlim said:
It is what's called a VoPo Luger. Reworked and re-used by Eastern Germany after WW2

Thank you for this information. I really appreciate the help.

Caz97

Discussion Starter · #5 · 5 mo ago

Rich said:
Caz, I believe you have what is known as a VOPO Luger, an abbreviation for Volks Polizei, German for People's Police, commonly know as the Communist East German Police. Many of these weapons were made up of surplus Russian captured parts and cobbled together into serviceable pistols. Yours appears to be made up of a WW 1 era Erfurt lower and a WW 2 era Mauser upper. The 882 under the barrel is the bore diameter. It is a "mix master".

What do you mean by mix master exactly. Also how can you tell the lower is ww1 era?

Edward Tinker

· #6 · 5 mo ago

A 'mismaster' is just a phrase we use. See the crown on the sideplate? That is an Erfurt plate from WW1 and earlier, while the upper is a 1941 mauser - the stamped over is called 'force matched' by collectors.

The 8,82 is the required land to land measurement when checked and it passed tolerances.
You'll see 8,82 or 8,84 etc.

See our FAQ on this site for some additional info.

Reactions: 1

Vlim

· #7 · 5 mo ago

The frame is a Mauser frame. Erfurt marked side plates are fairly common on VoPo's. Probably because they still had stores of Erfurt produced arsenal spare parts.

Is the magazine marked in any way?
They re-used WW2 magazines, but also made new ones, marked 2/1001 on the spine.

Nice example of a DDR VoPo, though.

Reactions: 2

Caz97

Discussion Starter · #8 · 5 mo ago

Edward Tinker said:
A 'mismaster' is just a phrase we use. See the crown on the sideplate? That is an Erfurt plate from WW1 and earlier, while the upper is a 1941 mauser - the stamped over is called 'force matched' by collectors.

The 8,82 is the required land to land measurement when checked and it passed tolerances.
You'll see 8,82 or 8,84 etc.

See our FAQ on this site for some additional info.

You have been terrific help sir. I can’t thank you enough with this new information.

Rich

· #9 · 5 mo ago

Caz- "Mix master" is a slang term some collectors use to describe arms that are assembled from parts that were not together when it was new and may be from different manufacturers and from different eras.

Reactions: 1

Caz97

Discussion Starter · #10 · 5 mo ago

Vlim said:
The frame is a Mauser frame. Erfurt marked side plates are fairly common on VoPo's. Probably because they still had stores of Erfurt produced arsenal spare parts.

Is the magazine marked in any way?
They re-used WW2 magazines, but also made new ones, marked 2/1001 on the spine.

Nice example of a DDR VoPo, though.

The magazine matches the serial number. Blue steel with aluminum bottom with 8558 marking and #1
Out of curiosity why did the 75 & 68 number get stamped with slash marks?

martin08

· #11 · 5 mo ago

The target-style emblem on the side of the grip is a very quick identifying feature of the post-war VOPO pistol.

The 7568 is an old serial number from the Mauser war-time barrel. The same number is crossed out on the left front barrel extension.

Reactions: 3

Vlim

· #12 · 5 mo ago

The VoPo's are a documented refurb/rebuild and I do not consider them to be 'mix masters'.

They have become a proper collectors variation and bring prices higher than shooter grade parts guns.

Reactions: 4

Caz97

Discussion Starter · #13 · 5 mo ago

Rich said:
Caz- "Mix master" is a slang term some collectors use to describe arms that are assembled from parts that were not together when it was new and may be from different manufacturers and from different eras.

Do these mix masters significantly decrease the value of this weapon?

Edward Tinker

· #14 · 5 mo ago

see above, it can, but like Vlim, I consider them a collectible now.

the slash is the way they show it was renumbered - lugers, even after WW2 might need hand fitting and so the armorer would try a part and if it worked right, they renumbered it (obviously more than just grabbing parts, but I have had a sideplate work and 3 others would not)

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Caz97

Discussion Starter · #15 · 5 mo ago

Edward Tinker said:
see above, it can, but like Vlim, I consider them a collectible now.

the slash is the way they show it was renumbered - lugers, even after WW2 might need hand fitting and so the armorer would try a part and if it worked right, they renumbered it (obviously more than just grabbing parts, but I have had a sideplate work and 3 others would not)

All this information has been very useful. I Appreciate your help.

stiknruddr

· #16 · 5 mo ago

At one time VOPO’s were considered “3rd world” and cheep. Now they’re a collectible catagory in and of itself. I wouldn’t attempt to change/modify it. If worth is a concern…worth more as is..just my opinion.

Reactions: 2

Rich

· #17 · 5 mo ago

Vlim said:
The VoPo's are a documented refurb/rebuild and I do not consider them to be 'mix masters'.

They have become a proper collectors variation and bring prices higher than shooter grade parts guns.

Vilm,
Of course VoPo's are a recognized collectable variation, they even have a name ... VoPo. It is a mater of semantics as to if VoPo's are or aren't mix masters, and as there is not likely an authoritative dictionary containing a definition for what some arms collectors slang calls "mix masters" there can be no final consensus. I use the term not necessarily as a pejorative term and simply mean it to say it consists of a variety of parts not originally together. Which is exactly what it is.
Peace,
Rich

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Jason S L

· #18 · 5 mo ago

Hey , here is my collection of “mix masters” and “black widows” 😆. I like the VoPo’s very interesting

johnboy

· #19 · 5 mo ago

Minutia is important to Luger collectors. In the interest of clarity.... a "VoPo" is a DDR rework. NOT a mixmaster. A "mixmaster" is a parts gun, a luger randomly assembled entirely from donor parts from multiple guns. And a luger largely intact but with a few replacement parts is a "mis-match"

VoPos are clearly visible in photos of Ethiopian Luger stockpiles about to be imported into the US. You can not spot mixmasters in a pile. VoPos are a variant by way of uniformity in their re-assembly, finish, markings and grips. If that helps

Reactions: 2

Edward T

· #20 · 5 mo ago

martin08 said:
The target-style emblem on the side of the grip is a very quick identifying feature of the post-war VOPO pistol.

The 7568 is an old serial number from the Mauser war-time barrel. The same number is crossed out on the left front barrel extension.

Also (slang) called Bulls - eye grips...

Edward

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