Jan C. Still Lugerforums banner
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello Forum,

I cam across a very nice BYF 1942. It's in excellent condition, it looks to good to be true. All the marks are nice and deep and I would say it's 95-98%. What concerns me are the grips, they dont' look walnut. I've read somewhere in this forum somebody had the BYF Luger who he inhereted from his brother and discribed the grips not being birch or backlite. The bore is like a mirror. Tha other thing is mag is a wood bottom obviously not matching, even the numbers are diffrent. For a strange reason the bottom of the mag looks exactly the same as the grip, kind of redish look. I'm in the wood working industry and it looks like birch to me. Tha asking price is 1000 bills. I love the gun and I think I would like to go for it but the shop states they would not perform strip field for the gun becasue it's a consignment weapon and they would not give me a three day period for expection. Is their something "fishy" going on. The exterior numbers match.I would like to check the inisde numbers. Is the price worth it? Its an exeptional looking gun
 

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Korona50x,

Are you willing--able--to gamble $1k on this purchase? Without the option to satisfy yourself up front or have the opportunity of a three-day examination period, that is exactly what you are doing. The gun may be a perfectly good example, but you cannot know until it is too late.

A good principle to follow is that if you cannot examine the gun pass on it, regardless.

--Dwight
 

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Chris,

Not to discount any of the sound advice Dwight has posted...

If you and the consignment owner live near the gun shop (which may well be the case...), why not ask the shop owner set up an appointment for both you and the consignment owner to meet at the shop to arrange for the gun's owner to do the detailed take-down in person ?

This would give you a chance to satisfy yourself that the gun has not been messed with and is in good working order yet at the same time assure the shop owner that the two of you are not trying to "bypass" him in the transaction.

You might also bring a couple of 9 mm "dummy" rounds (available from Brownell's) and ask the gun owner to cycle a couple through the guns magazine and action...giving you more confidence that mechanically the gun is sound.

A price of $ 1,000.00 for a very decent "byf" is a good price in today's market and might be worth your time going back to the gun shop to propose such a meeting with the consignment owner...

p.s. It is also fairly easy to find a good pair of the authentic black bakelite "Black Widow" grips and a proper aluminum-bottomed magazine for this '42 byf pistol. Together, both would set you back another $ 200-250...still in the price range for a good byf luger once you add the $ 1000 price of the gun.
 

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An alternate magazine, that is perhaps a better match to the byf 42, is a fxo marked magazine with a black plastic bottom. If you can find a nice one, without chips in the plastic, It'll set you back about $150, or so!!

Make sure all the proper parts are stamped with the last two digits of the serial number!!! Good Luck!
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hello Guys,

Thanks for responding. I forced the owner of the shop to make up a decision about checking the gun, for matching parts. As suspicious as I was their was one part that looked strange it looked like the firing pin (its original) number looked like it was 36 under a magnifying glass and the last two digits were 46. It looked like somebody restamped the firing pin to match the gun. It is very strange because besides that the gun is really beautiful inside 'n' out. I am really sorry I couldn't participate unless one of you forum members that has a original firing pin with the number 46 for trade or sell. It is a real shame that that gun in excellent+ condition turned to be a simple shooter. Thanks for your responce I'm looking forward to hearing from you on this or other subjects
 

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Chris
You said "It is a real shame that that gun in excellent+ condition turned to be a simple shooter."

Did I miss something here. The firing pin is a part subject to breakage or loss or replacement. A mismatched firing pin does not reduce an otherwise E+ byf 42 to a simple shooter.
Jan
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hello Jan

I am a young collector. And I was told if the gun is mismatched in anyway or refinished it falls into the name of being a shooter. As I described the gun is in excellent condition I would love to snap some pictures and put it on the post but the owner is hard to work with. Especially now since I told him I'm not going to buy the gun. What is the chance of me finding the firing pin numbered 46? I would love to do that but I did it once to my Mauser 42 which is again in excellent condition but sombody put pearl grips on it I got the original wall nut grips but they are not matched to the gun now. It is an 1940 coded 42 in "i" block. Which I think black bakelite grips would be more proper to that gun. For the last three years I didn't see a nice pair of plastic grips. Returning to the subject, what do you think I should buy the pistol and try to match the firing pin later on. I'm looking forward to your opinion.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hi I am a new member and I also have just purchased a luger like the one Korona50x described. Even tho I know little to nothing about Lugers I have a lifetime of gun ownership in which I have owned very large gun collections so I felt I could take a chance on this one. I also knew the owner and a little about the history of the gun collection I was buying so I felt I would be ok with it as the previous owner is an honest man who just needed some cash. This gun appears to be in awsome condition. It is tight with a bright shiny bore and barrel. I see no pitting inside the barrel at all. It looks as if it has had a VERY VERY low amount of usage. It has a nice dark blue upper with all parts sharp and crisp as well as milling marks present. The milling marks are not really bad or overly deep but they are present. All numbers match including the internal ones but I have not checked the firing pin yet as I am still learning how to disassimble the gun (anyone know of a diagram which could help me). There is no evidence of rebluing or buffing that I can see. None</u> of the edges are rounded all are squared and sharp 90 degree angles even where the barrel and receiver meet. The marking and numbers on the gun are deep and clear but some are a little to small for me to see well but I have noticed that the eagle is stamped lighter on one side then the other as if the tool was not pressed into the metal squared and flat. But I have seen this on other old mausers as well. The grips are real wood with nice deep checking and the grips show no wear at all. They are a medium color like birch would be. I see no wood grain but they are definally wood and fit well with no gaps at the meeting surfaces of the frame and grip. The receiver is blued and the frame is nickle which has a non-glare look to it. The outer small parts are not dark blue they have a faded look to them. I have never seen the straw people talk about so I can not say if these are straw. The serial number on front of the frame under the barrel is 3_07 l (small L). The small parts like the trigger, take down lever and the working end of the safety have 07 on them. Under the safety lever the frame has the word GESICHERT on it. The frame itself has P.08 stamped on it near the safety. Inside the frame just behide the trigger but up high near the upper edge of the inside frame on the is a blued part with 07 on it. This part is flat and lies against the inside of the frame on the right hand side. I do not know what the name of this part is. The magazine is blue with wear showing from being inserted and removed from the frame. On the mag side opposite of the bullet loading button is the following markings P.08 which is stamped on the side near the bottom. On the same side of the mag accross from the P.08 is TXO there is a deep marking under the TXO but I can not see it as I need a magnafying glass since it is so small and my eyes are so old. It looks like a 7 with something in front of it. This is right under the TXO. The bottom of the mag is black plastic with round mouldings for your fingers to grasp. On the bottom of the barrel just in front of the frame is 3_07 the serial number. Also on the left hand side of the barrel near the top close to the frame is what appears to be another eagle but I need to verify this with a magnaifer glass as it is very small. With the receiver turned upside down there are markings which I can not see well enough to describe as they are very very small. On the left hand side of the receiver near the barrel is stamped 3_07. Near and above the slide rails on left side is a small part with 07 on it and the pin on the rear of the left side of the frame has 07 as well. On the top of the receiver near the barrel is the number 42. The action is nickle colored (not sure it is nickle) with #07 stamped on the front and and again near the rear of the action. The letters byf are stamped on the top between the two 07 stamps on the action. On the right side of the receiver is three different stamps side by side the first two are alike an eagle with 135 under it. The third stamp is an eagle without any number under it. The front sight has steps milled into it going from the barrel up the sight base and then to the sight tip. The bluing is original I think as you can see the steel surface under the blue color if you look at it from an angle under a direct very close bright light. A rebluing on this would have been dark enough and deep enough to hid the surface entirely IMHO. There is a very small amount of surface rust in a very small area on the frame under the trigger guard where your fingers grips the gun and under the adjoining grip. The rust stain was so new under the trigger guard that I was able to rubbed most of it off with my finger and some oil. There are a couple of very small rust areas on the fame under the grip with small pits. The gun had been soaked in gun oil before being stored and the oil was just beginning to thicken into gunk after a few years of storage. I have had the gun less then 24 hours so I have not had an opportunity to clean it throughly. I did wipe it down with an oily cloth (to immediatly retard any soon to be forming rust), I cleaned the inside of the barrel so I could look through it and I oiled the slide, pins and levers until I can get the time to do it right. None of this can be seen without really searching. One of the grips has a small chip off the bottom corner where it comes to a point and the mag has a chip on the plastic bottom were your fingers grip the mag on the little circular plastic peices on one side only.
I would like to know if there is a web site where I can look up the stamp markings so I can understand what they mean and also a place where I can figure out the guns value. I will be able to post pics around wednesday this week. This gun is absolutly beautiful with dark blueing, crisp lines and matching numbers. There is a small area at the very front of the barrel which shows a little holster wear on the blueing. The trigger pull is very light and chrisp. It only has a few faults (grip and mag bottom) and the small amount of surface rust will soon be a memory after I clean it. This is only one of the firearms I purchased yesterday from my friend but it seems to me to be the nicest. y intention is to clean it up and sell it at auction but I need to know its value so I don't get ripped off and end up giving it away. Any help will be greatly appreciated. I may have the holster for this as well but I need to check that out. Sorry for the long post but I wanted to do this gun justice.

Best Wishes to you and youirs,
H2oStone

PS I do not want to break any rules. I am not trying to sell the gun here only learn about it. Thanks again Pat.
 

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quote:Originally posted by Jan C Still

The firing pin is a part subject to breakage or loss or replacement. A mismatched firing pin does not reduce an otherwise E+ byf 42 to a simple shooter. Jan
Jan, glad to see you post this, over the years, I have been dismayed several times when I see long time collectors tell a young or inexpierenced collector that their otherwise near-perfect Luger is a "shooter" because it had replacement firing pin or maybe unmarked grips.

I do believe you want an example that is all matching, but feel it is a shame when it is something simple like that.

Ed
 

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At a very large gunshow last year I came across a 1914 Erfurt LP08 rig complete with matched stock and three matched mags in an excellent mag pouch. I paid $2900 for the rig. It sat, in the open, on a table within 100 feet of two of the country's biggest dealers for over 24 hours. Neither of these people made a move on it. I imagine they were unhappy with the fact that the breech block, firing pin and extractor were all unnumbered DWM manufacture. To my thinking they were all replaced by some company armorer, probably during WWI. I know the barrel bushing in my issued 1911A1 was replaced once during two years I carried it in the early seventies.
 

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I, too, appreciate Jan's comment on something that IMO is sometimes stressed too much when a new collector enters the field. While we all would like to have 100% all-matching Lugers, the reality is that with the newest of the military guns being 59 years old, it's not always possible to find - or afford - the prime examples. Lets not discourage new collectors by setting the bar at an unreasonable height. Let me add that I have no problem with those who will not accept anything but a perfect, all-matching Luger. Each collector sets his own standard for his collection and I respect their decision.
 
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