Great writeup Jan! Some time ago I made up a side-by-side illustration of the two variations in grip angle. Makes it easy to see.
AngleComp.jpg
AngleComp.jpg
.45 CAL. LUGERS: ABERMAN, NORTON, ARMY 45 CAL.
11
.45 CAL. LUGERS: ABERMAN, NORTON, ARMY 45 CAL.
by Mike Jones and Jan C. Still
(Note: some of the information and measurements presented here has already been noted by posts on the Luger Forum by Pete Ebbink, Edward Tinker, Johnny Peppers, and Ron Wood.)
Copyright 2004 by Mike Jones and Jan C. Still
This is to present photographs and details from the Mike Jones/Harry Jones archives that documents the two surviving .45 cal Lugers, the Aberman and the Norton, and to present a photograph (from the U.S. Army archives) taken at the time of the 1907 U.S. pistol tests of a .45 cal U.S. test Luger. These will clear up some previous confusion and correct some misinformation.
There are three well documented .45 cal(term test deleted 8/19/04) lugers. These are the U.S. Army .45 cal test photo Luger (here in named: Army .45 Cal. Luger ), the Abernam and the Norton Lugers. The former is documented with a single photograph from the U.S. test archives (1907 dated U.S. Ordance photograph), the other two are named after prominent collectors that once owned them.
( Note: There is a marked difference in the grip angle and shape of the lower part of the grip between the U.S.1907 test photo Luger and the two other .45 cal Lugers. First noted by Kenyon in “Lugers at Random”, 1969, page 110 and Walther in “Luger” 1977).
The two known .45 cal (term test deleted 8/19/04)Lugers were never properly serial numbered, which has resulted in much confusion in identifying these Lugers. The Abernam has a number 2 on its side plate (commercial placement) and a number 21 on its magazine base. The Norton is unnumbered but has a 3 on its magazine base. The Aberman and Norton Lugers bear the G/L hallmark. Likely the Army .45 Cal Luger also does.
BACKGROUND, U.S. ARMY LUGER TESTS
One thousand Lugers (7.65 cal) were delivered to the U. S. Springfield Armory in late 1901 for U.S. Army pistol test trials. Most were distributed to U.S. Cavalry troops involved in police actions in the Philippines and Cuba. As the American Cavalry troops had used revolvers (Colt .45 and .38) for over 30 years, the small caliber, complex Luger, was viewed with some suspicion and not readily accepted. There were complaints as to small caliber, safety while riding from horseback, and unreliable action. As a result of these reports 50 Lugers in caliber 9mm were briefly tested by the Army in 1904-1906. By 1906, the lack of wallop of the smaller calibers (7.65 and 9mm) lead the U.S. Army to conduct all future Luger tests in .45 caliber. (Note: A common characteristic of the 7.65, 9 mm and .45 cal. U.S. test Lugers was the absence of proofs.) (See Imperial Lugers, 1991, page 209-214 for details of 1900 and 1902 American Eagle Test Lugers.)(Also, see the two links below)
See 1900 AMERICAN EAGLE, U.S. TEST
http://www.gunboards.com/luger/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=668
See 1902 AMERICAN EAGLE C C TEST
http://www.gunboards.com/luger/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=853
A .45 caliber Luger was tested in 1907. During the 1907 tests of the .45 cal Luger, 1022 rounds were fired through it. In the process of firing the Luger was subjected to blasts of sand and a corrosion test. Datig (page 111) estimates that one Luger was consumed by the harsh tests.
In 1908, the U.S. Army ordered 200 .45 Cal Lugers for continued testing in competition against the .45 Cal Colt Pistol. DWM turned down this order and cited that the German Navy and Army had already adopted the Luger in 9mm caliber.
ARMY .45 CAL LUGER (U.S. Test .45 Cal. Luger, 1907 Photo)
Here in referred to as the Army .45 Cal Luger
This is the first photographic documentation of a .45 cal Luger.
History: Documentation is a 1907 photograph shown in Annual Report of the Chief of Ordnance, 1907 Appendix: Report of Board on Tests Of Revolvers and Automatic Pistols.
Markings/description: Low front sight, 55 degree grip (this is the standard grip angle found on all production Lugers). Trigger different from Abernam and Norton in accordance with their 60 degree grip. Also, the Army .45 cal Luger has a different shape at the bottom of its grip than the Abernam or Norton Lugers.
Note: comparison of the frames of the Army test and a standard P08 indicates that both had a similar grip angle, 55 degrees. The Aberman and Norton Lugers have a 60 degree grip angle.
The difference in grip angles between the Norton and Aberman Lugers and the Army .45 Cal. Luger, raises some interesting questions.
1. Does the 1907 published photograph of the U.S. Army Test Luger show the actual Luger that was subsequently subjected to all the harsh (maybe destructive) tests?
2. Why were Lugers with two grip angles (55 and 60 degrees) presented to the U.S. Army for tests?
Other .45 cal revolvers and pistols refereed by the testing board and shown in1907 photographs:
.45 cal Automatics
1. The Colt
2. The Luger
3. The Savage
4. The Knoble single action
5. The Knoble double action
6. The Bergmann
7. The White-Merrill
.45 cal Double Action Revolvers
1. Colt
2. Smith & Wesson
.45 cal Automatic Revolver
1. Webley-Fosbery
Download Attachment: Copy of Figure 1.jpg
29.97 KB
Figure 1. Army .45 caliber Luger. This Luger has a low front sight and a 55 degree grip angle. (The Aberman and Norton Lugers have a 60 degree grip angle.) Also, it has a different shape at the bottom of its grip than the Aberman or Norton Lugers. Identified by this 1907 photograph from US army archives. This Luger photograph is contained in a report concerning pistols submitted for U.S. test in 1907. It is probable that the Luger shown is the one tested by the Testing Commission in 1907. These tests consisting of induced sand and corrosion and it is suspected that the original test Luger may have been destroyed by the test. Two Lugers have surfaced since the tests, the Aberman and the Norton. Both of these have 60 degree grip angles. It seems unusual that the spare Test Luger would be so much different than the luger actually tested. (Archive tag on back of photograph reads: Plate 2. Luger Automatic Pistol cal .45 from U.S. War Dept, Annual report of the Secretary of War, 1907, Vol 6. Report of the Chief of Ordnance, Appendix. Report of Board on Tests of Revolvers and Automatic Pistols. March 28, 1907.)
GENERAL INFORMATION NORTON AND ABERMAN .45 CAL LUGERS
In his book “Luger” Walter discusses the .45 cal Luger on page 81 (he is referring to the Norton or Aberman type)
The frame, barrel, and receiver were new; heavier and stronger to match the power of the .45 cal cartridge. The grip angle was markedly less than the standard Luger . The barrel is five inches long.
Kenyon (page 110) states that this (Aberman .45 cal) Luger is the most impressive in appearance, “feel’ and desirability of any Luger in existence. Kenyon notes the sharper grip angle.
Walter (page 81) states that the 11.35 Cal Luger is the ugliest of the whole series.....alteration of the grip angle (squarer to the bore) does nothing to the pointability.
ABERMAN .45 CAL. LUGER
PROVENANCE: from Harry Joner notes: Purchased from Springfield Armory in 1913 by Dr. C. I. McClenathen of Akron, Ohio. The Dr sold it to Warren G. Ogdan who was stationed at Erie Proving Grounds on 9/15/1944 for $150.
Mr. Ogdan sold the Luger to Sid Aberman in May 1949 for the same price that he paid for it. Mr. Ogdan said he sold it to Sid Aberman because he was a good friend and practically dying to have it.
PUBLICATIONS: Mentioned in Datig, “THE LUGER PISTOL”, 1955. Page111.
Photo shown in Jones, LUGER VARIATIONS, 1959, page 108.
Photo shown in Kenyon, LUGERS AT RANDOM, 1969 page 111.
MARKINGS/DESCRIPTION: 2 on side plate in the commercial style and *21 on the magazine base. 60 degree grip, GL inscription, extractor marked LOADED, no other markings.
* It is speculated that the magazine number is a magazine reference number and not intended to match a Luger serial number.
Download Attachment: Figure 2.jpg
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Figure 2. Left side, Aberman .45 caliber Luger. It bears serial number 2 on its side plate in the commercial style and a 21 on its magazine base. Jones Archive #7. Copyright 2004 Mike Jones
Download Attachment: Figure 3.jpg
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Figure 3. Right side, Aberman .45 caliber Luger. Jones Archives. Mike Jones Archive # 8. Copyright 2004 Mike Jones
Download Attachment: Figure 4.jpg
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Figure 4.. Left side, Aberman .45 caliber Luger compared to left side of 1911 DWM . The Aberman Luger bears a 60 degree grip angle while the 1911 DWM bears a 55 degree grip angle. The 55 degree grip angle is found on all other Lugers. Jones Archive #9. Copyright 2004 Mike Jones
Download Attachment: Figure 5.jpg
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Figure 5. Top of Aberman Luger (third from left), in comparison to a variety of other Lugers. It is unmarked on top and has a more robust receiver and barrel. Lugers from left to right: .22 cal conversion unit installed, 1915 DWM LP 08, Aberman .45 cal Luger,1906 or 1908 Navy, 1910 DWM, carbine, 1900 American Eagle, Borchardt. The Aberman .45 cal Luger is unmarked on the top. (The .22 cal conversion unit installed (top) is the Richenbach .22 cal Luger shown on a frontispiece page of Jones, “Luger Variations” 4th printing, 1975.) Jones Archive #10. Copyright 2004 Mike Jones
NORTON .45 CAL LUGER
PROVENANCE: This Luger originated from Canada. The luger was first offered to Carl Wilson, for $4000. At an airport meeting, the price was increased by $1000 and Wilson turned it down. It was purchased by Harry Jones in July 1960 for $5000. Jones sold to the Norton Gallery, Shreveport, Louisiana for $5500 a few months later.
Currently displayed in Norton Gallery, Shreveport, Louisiana.
PUBLICATIONS: Color photo shown in Jones, LUGER VARIATIONS, 1975, 4th printing, frontispiece section.
Shown in Walter “Luger” page 82 and misidentified as serial number 14.
Mike Jones reports that an old time collector (who has passed away) claimed to have found .45 cal Luger, serial number 5, in about 1973. When the photograph was sent to Harry Jones it was of the Norton gun. The same Norton Luger photograph is also shown in the February, 1974, Guns and Ammo.**
MARKINGS/DESCRIPTION: 3 on magazine base, C/N on left receiver,high front sight, 60 degree grips, GL inscription, extractor marked LOADED, no other markings
NOTE: Harry Jones refused to give up the measurements of the Norton and Aberman Lugers to preserve their integrity and prevent copies from being made. According to his son Mike, that resulted in more that one heated argument.
Except for slightly different front sights and the C/N proof, Harry Jones (who had inspected both the Abernam and Norton Luger in detail) said that both were identical.
Download Attachment: Figure 6.jpg
33.38 KB
Figure 6. Left side, Norton .45 caliber Luger. It bears serial number 3 on its magazine base and a C/N on its left receiver. It bears no other markings except “LOADED” on its extractor.
1900 and 1902 U.S. Army Test Lugers did not bear test proofs nor does the Aberman Luger. This has led to speculation that the Norton Luger might have remained at the factory where it received its C/N proof and was not involved in the U.S. Army tests in 1907. Jones Archive #1. Copyright 2004 Mike Jones
Download Attachment: Figure 7.jpg
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Figure 7. Right side, Norton .45 caliber Luger. Jones Archive #2. Copyright 2004 Mike Jones
Download Attachment: Figure 8.jpg
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Figure 8. Top of Norton .45 caliber Luger compared to the top of a standard 4 in DWM. The barrel, and receiver of the .45 cal Luger are heavier and stronger to match the power of the .45 cal cartridge. Jones Archive #3. Copyright 2004 Mike Jones
Download Attachment: Figure 9.jpg
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Figure 9. Comparison of the larger Norton .45 caliber Luger magazine number 3, to the standard DWM magazine. Jones Archive #4. Copyright 2004 Mike Jones
Download Attachment: Figure 10.jpg
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Figure 10. Left side, Norton .45 caliber Luger frame compared to left side 1906 Commercial frame. Note: differences toward the top left side of the magazine well. Jones Archive #5. Copyright 2004 Mike Jones
Download Attachment: Figure 11.jpg
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Figure 11. Right side, Norton .45 caliber Luger frame compared to right side 1906 Commercial frame. Jones Archive #6. Copyright 2004 Mike Jones
OTHER REPORTED .45 CAL LUGERS
SN 4 .45 LUGER
The below information was added to the original article on 8-24-04.
Description of .45 Luger examined by Reinhard Kornmayer while visiting in Florida during 1991. Referred to here in as sn 4 .45 Luger. Reinhard was kind enough to supply the following information.
1. Serial number 4, location not recorded
2. Markings: American Eagle over chamber and George Luger intertwined GL at rear of rear toggle link.
3. Grip angle: 55 degrees (like all production Lugers and Army .45 cal Luger.)
4. Back grip strap shape: rounded like Aberman/Norton Luger (not abrupt like Army .45 cal Luger)
5. Bottom of trigger guard of is not horizontal and gradually converges with long axis of barrel.
The sn 4 .45 Luger has the grip angle of the Army .45 cal Luger (photograph) and the grip shape of the Aberman/Nortom Lugers!
Documentation has yet to surface indicating how many .45 caliber Lugers were sent to the U.S. Army for the 1907 tests or how many were actually manufactured. Datig (1955/1962, page 111) indicates that there were two test Lugers, one was consumed in the tests, another survived (the Aberman). Jones (1959/1975, shows both the Abernam and Norton Luger (frontispiece and page 108). Kenyon (1969, page 110) states that serial number one was used in the test and number 2 was back up. Meadows(1993) in “U.S. Military Automatic Pistols 1894-1920" states that: ...“the prevailing consensus is that the likely number is three, one prototype and two for the U.S. Test trials of 1907.” Walter in “Luger” page 82 states that: “August Weiss has stated that, to the best of his recollection, his predecessor as superintendent of DWM pistol production, Heinrich Hoffman, once mentioned that only four to six .45 cal Parabellums were ever made.
The three Lugers discussed above (Army .45 cal, Abernam and Norton) have been documented through photographs and in publications and have an established provenance. Other .45 caliber Lugers have been reported. Sometimes they are repeated reports (and sometimes photographs) of the two established Lugers or vague rumors of .45 cal Lugers that lack photographs or documentation. In “Luger Variations” (1975) frontispiece Jones states that ....”contrary to constantly fabricated stories, there are only two known examples of this impressive oversized model(the Abernam and the Norton).
An example of the use of vague rumors to build a case for additional .45 cal Lugers is given on page 81 and 82 of Walter’s book Luger. Walter makes a case for fourteen .45 cal Lugers. He bases it on the following:
1. Persistent reports from North America state that guns numbered 0 and 4 were found in Germany in 1945 and taken as war trophies.
2. One is known to bear the number 14 on the rear toggle link. On page 82 a photograph of serial number 14 Luger is shown. Based on several distinctive marks in the photograph (blemish on the grip, grain in the grip, C/N on the left receiver, front sight(note; front sight is cropped in the photograph) wear lines on the grip safety) it can be easily determined that the photograph is of the Norton Luger.** The only number on this Luger is a 3 on its magazine base.
Without knowing the source of the persistent reports from North America, the Luger collector/historian cannot investigate and determine the truth and reliability of the statements. Also, the fact that the Luger photograph (shown on page 82, Luger) that Walter reports to be Luger serial number 14 is really the Norton Luger bearing only the number 3 on its magazine base, discredits Walters case for fourteen .45 caliber Lugers manufactured.
Near exact replicas of the .45 Luger are currently being manufactured in quantity and reports of original .45 Lugers without substantial previously published documentation or where the documentation is held secret should be taken with a grain of salt.
Information on additional .45 cal Lugers (manufactured in about 1907) would be most welcome, particularly those with available documentation.
REFERENCES CITED
Annual Report of the Chief of Ordnance, 1907 Appendix: Report of Board on Tests Of Revolvers and Automatic Pistols
Datig, “The Luger Pistol” 1955/1962, page 111
Jones, Archives
Jones, “Luger Variations”1959
Jones, “Luger Variations” 4th printing, 1975
Kenyon, “Lugers at Random”, 1969
Kornmayer, August 2004 correspondance
Meadows, “U.S. Military Automatic Pistols 1894-1920", 1993
Still, “Imperial Lugers”, 1991, page 209-214
U.S. War Dept, Annual report of the Secretary of War, 1907, Vol 6. Report of the Chief of Ordnance, Appendix. Report of Board on Tests of Revolvers and Automatic Pistols. March 28, 1907.
Walther “Luger” 1977
by Mike Jones and Jan C. Still
(Note: some of the information and measurements presented here has already been noted by posts on the Luger Forum by Pete Ebbink, Edward Tinker, Johnny Peppers, and Ron Wood.)
Copyright 2004 by Mike Jones and Jan C. Still
This is to present photographs and details from the Mike Jones/Harry Jones archives that documents the two surviving .45 cal Lugers, the Aberman and the Norton, and to present a photograph (from the U.S. Army archives) taken at the time of the 1907 U.S. pistol tests of a .45 cal U.S. test Luger. These will clear up some previous confusion and correct some misinformation.
There are three well documented .45 cal(term test deleted 8/19/04) lugers. These are the U.S. Army .45 cal test photo Luger (here in named: Army .45 Cal. Luger ), the Abernam and the Norton Lugers. The former is documented with a single photograph from the U.S. test archives (1907 dated U.S. Ordance photograph), the other two are named after prominent collectors that once owned them.
( Note: There is a marked difference in the grip angle and shape of the lower part of the grip between the U.S.1907 test photo Luger and the two other .45 cal Lugers. First noted by Kenyon in “Lugers at Random”, 1969, page 110 and Walther in “Luger” 1977).
The two known .45 cal (term test deleted 8/19/04)Lugers were never properly serial numbered, which has resulted in much confusion in identifying these Lugers. The Abernam has a number 2 on its side plate (commercial placement) and a number 21 on its magazine base. The Norton is unnumbered but has a 3 on its magazine base. The Aberman and Norton Lugers bear the G/L hallmark. Likely the Army .45 Cal Luger also does.
BACKGROUND, U.S. ARMY LUGER TESTS
One thousand Lugers (7.65 cal) were delivered to the U. S. Springfield Armory in late 1901 for U.S. Army pistol test trials. Most were distributed to U.S. Cavalry troops involved in police actions in the Philippines and Cuba. As the American Cavalry troops had used revolvers (Colt .45 and .38) for over 30 years, the small caliber, complex Luger, was viewed with some suspicion and not readily accepted. There were complaints as to small caliber, safety while riding from horseback, and unreliable action. As a result of these reports 50 Lugers in caliber 9mm were briefly tested by the Army in 1904-1906. By 1906, the lack of wallop of the smaller calibers (7.65 and 9mm) lead the U.S. Army to conduct all future Luger tests in .45 caliber. (Note: A common characteristic of the 7.65, 9 mm and .45 cal. U.S. test Lugers was the absence of proofs.) (See Imperial Lugers, 1991, page 209-214 for details of 1900 and 1902 American Eagle Test Lugers.)(Also, see the two links below)
See 1900 AMERICAN EAGLE, U.S. TEST
http://www.gunboards.com/luger/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=668
See 1902 AMERICAN EAGLE C C TEST
http://www.gunboards.com/luger/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=853
A .45 caliber Luger was tested in 1907. During the 1907 tests of the .45 cal Luger, 1022 rounds were fired through it. In the process of firing the Luger was subjected to blasts of sand and a corrosion test. Datig (page 111) estimates that one Luger was consumed by the harsh tests.
In 1908, the U.S. Army ordered 200 .45 Cal Lugers for continued testing in competition against the .45 Cal Colt Pistol. DWM turned down this order and cited that the German Navy and Army had already adopted the Luger in 9mm caliber.
ARMY .45 CAL LUGER (U.S. Test .45 Cal. Luger, 1907 Photo)
Here in referred to as the Army .45 Cal Luger
This is the first photographic documentation of a .45 cal Luger.
History: Documentation is a 1907 photograph shown in Annual Report of the Chief of Ordnance, 1907 Appendix: Report of Board on Tests Of Revolvers and Automatic Pistols.
Markings/description: Low front sight, 55 degree grip (this is the standard grip angle found on all production Lugers). Trigger different from Abernam and Norton in accordance with their 60 degree grip. Also, the Army .45 cal Luger has a different shape at the bottom of its grip than the Abernam or Norton Lugers.
Note: comparison of the frames of the Army test and a standard P08 indicates that both had a similar grip angle, 55 degrees. The Aberman and Norton Lugers have a 60 degree grip angle.
The difference in grip angles between the Norton and Aberman Lugers and the Army .45 Cal. Luger, raises some interesting questions.
1. Does the 1907 published photograph of the U.S. Army Test Luger show the actual Luger that was subsequently subjected to all the harsh (maybe destructive) tests?
2. Why were Lugers with two grip angles (55 and 60 degrees) presented to the U.S. Army for tests?
Other .45 cal revolvers and pistols refereed by the testing board and shown in1907 photographs:
.45 cal Automatics
1. The Colt
2. The Luger
3. The Savage
4. The Knoble single action
5. The Knoble double action
6. The Bergmann
7. The White-Merrill
.45 cal Double Action Revolvers
1. Colt
2. Smith & Wesson
.45 cal Automatic Revolver
1. Webley-Fosbery
Download Attachment:
Copy of Figure 1.jpg29.97 KB
Figure 1. Army .45 caliber Luger. This Luger has a low front sight and a 55 degree grip angle. (The Aberman and Norton Lugers have a 60 degree grip angle.) Also, it has a different shape at the bottom of its grip than the Aberman or Norton Lugers. Identified by this 1907 photograph from US army archives. This Luger photograph is contained in a report concerning pistols submitted for U.S. test in 1907. It is probable that the Luger shown is the one tested by the Testing Commission in 1907. These tests consisting of induced sand and corrosion and it is suspected that the original test Luger may have been destroyed by the test. Two Lugers have surfaced since the tests, the Aberman and the Norton. Both of these have 60 degree grip angles. It seems unusual that the spare Test Luger would be so much different than the luger actually tested. (Archive tag on back of photograph reads: Plate 2. Luger Automatic Pistol cal .45 from U.S. War Dept, Annual report of the Secretary of War, 1907, Vol 6. Report of the Chief of Ordnance, Appendix. Report of Board on Tests of Revolvers and Automatic Pistols. March 28, 1907.)
GENERAL INFORMATION NORTON AND ABERMAN .45 CAL LUGERS
In his book “Luger” Walter discusses the .45 cal Luger on page 81 (he is referring to the Norton or Aberman type)
The frame, barrel, and receiver were new; heavier and stronger to match the power of the .45 cal cartridge. The grip angle was markedly less than the standard Luger . The barrel is five inches long.
Kenyon (page 110) states that this (Aberman .45 cal) Luger is the most impressive in appearance, “feel’ and desirability of any Luger in existence. Kenyon notes the sharper grip angle.
Walter (page 81) states that the 11.35 Cal Luger is the ugliest of the whole series.....alteration of the grip angle (squarer to the bore) does nothing to the pointability.
ABERMAN .45 CAL. LUGER
PROVENANCE: from Harry Joner notes: Purchased from Springfield Armory in 1913 by Dr. C. I. McClenathen of Akron, Ohio. The Dr sold it to Warren G. Ogdan who was stationed at Erie Proving Grounds on 9/15/1944 for $150.
Mr. Ogdan sold the Luger to Sid Aberman in May 1949 for the same price that he paid for it. Mr. Ogdan said he sold it to Sid Aberman because he was a good friend and practically dying to have it.
PUBLICATIONS: Mentioned in Datig, “THE LUGER PISTOL”, 1955. Page111.
Photo shown in Jones, LUGER VARIATIONS, 1959, page 108.
Photo shown in Kenyon, LUGERS AT RANDOM, 1969 page 111.
MARKINGS/DESCRIPTION: 2 on side plate in the commercial style and *21 on the magazine base. 60 degree grip, GL inscription, extractor marked LOADED, no other markings.
* It is speculated that the magazine number is a magazine reference number and not intended to match a Luger serial number.
Download Attachment:
Figure 2.jpg29.84 KB
Figure 2. Left side, Aberman .45 caliber Luger. It bears serial number 2 on its side plate in the commercial style and a 21 on its magazine base. Jones Archive #7. Copyright 2004 Mike Jones
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Figure 3.jpg31.34 KB
Figure 3. Right side, Aberman .45 caliber Luger. Jones Archives. Mike Jones Archive # 8. Copyright 2004 Mike Jones
Download Attachment:
Figure 4.jpg56.78 KB
Figure 4.. Left side, Aberman .45 caliber Luger compared to left side of 1911 DWM . The Aberman Luger bears a 60 degree grip angle while the 1911 DWM bears a 55 degree grip angle. The 55 degree grip angle is found on all other Lugers. Jones Archive #9. Copyright 2004 Mike Jones
Download Attachment:
Figure 5.jpg38.9 KB
Figure 5. Top of Aberman Luger (third from left), in comparison to a variety of other Lugers. It is unmarked on top and has a more robust receiver and barrel. Lugers from left to right: .22 cal conversion unit installed, 1915 DWM LP 08, Aberman .45 cal Luger,1906 or 1908 Navy, 1910 DWM, carbine, 1900 American Eagle, Borchardt. The Aberman .45 cal Luger is unmarked on the top. (The .22 cal conversion unit installed (top) is the Richenbach .22 cal Luger shown on a frontispiece page of Jones, “Luger Variations” 4th printing, 1975.) Jones Archive #10. Copyright 2004 Mike Jones
NORTON .45 CAL LUGER
PROVENANCE: This Luger originated from Canada. The luger was first offered to Carl Wilson, for $4000. At an airport meeting, the price was increased by $1000 and Wilson turned it down. It was purchased by Harry Jones in July 1960 for $5000. Jones sold to the Norton Gallery, Shreveport, Louisiana for $5500 a few months later.
Currently displayed in Norton Gallery, Shreveport, Louisiana.
PUBLICATIONS: Color photo shown in Jones, LUGER VARIATIONS, 1975, 4th printing, frontispiece section.
Shown in Walter “Luger” page 82 and misidentified as serial number 14.
Mike Jones reports that an old time collector (who has passed away) claimed to have found .45 cal Luger, serial number 5, in about 1973. When the photograph was sent to Harry Jones it was of the Norton gun. The same Norton Luger photograph is also shown in the February, 1974, Guns and Ammo.**
MARKINGS/DESCRIPTION: 3 on magazine base, C/N on left receiver,high front sight, 60 degree grips, GL inscription, extractor marked LOADED, no other markings
NOTE: Harry Jones refused to give up the measurements of the Norton and Aberman Lugers to preserve their integrity and prevent copies from being made. According to his son Mike, that resulted in more that one heated argument.
Except for slightly different front sights and the C/N proof, Harry Jones (who had inspected both the Abernam and Norton Luger in detail) said that both were identical.
Download Attachment:
Figure 6.jpg33.38 KB
Figure 6. Left side, Norton .45 caliber Luger. It bears serial number 3 on its magazine base and a C/N on its left receiver. It bears no other markings except “LOADED” on its extractor.
1900 and 1902 U.S. Army Test Lugers did not bear test proofs nor does the Aberman Luger. This has led to speculation that the Norton Luger might have remained at the factory where it received its C/N proof and was not involved in the U.S. Army tests in 1907. Jones Archive #1. Copyright 2004 Mike Jones
Download Attachment:
Figure 7.jpg34.05 KB
Figure 7. Right side, Norton .45 caliber Luger. Jones Archive #2. Copyright 2004 Mike Jones
Download Attachment:
Figure 8.jpg21.64 KB
Figure 8. Top of Norton .45 caliber Luger compared to the top of a standard 4 in DWM. The barrel, and receiver of the .45 cal Luger are heavier and stronger to match the power of the .45 cal cartridge. Jones Archive #3. Copyright 2004 Mike Jones
Download Attachment:
Figure 9.jpg21.48 KB
Figure 9. Comparison of the larger Norton .45 caliber Luger magazine number 3, to the standard DWM magazine. Jones Archive #4. Copyright 2004 Mike Jones
Download Attachment:
Figure 10.jpg56.38 KB
Figure 10. Left side, Norton .45 caliber Luger frame compared to left side 1906 Commercial frame. Note: differences toward the top left side of the magazine well. Jones Archive #5. Copyright 2004 Mike Jones
Download Attachment:
Figure 11.jpg54.89 KB
Figure 11. Right side, Norton .45 caliber Luger frame compared to right side 1906 Commercial frame. Jones Archive #6. Copyright 2004 Mike Jones
OTHER REPORTED .45 CAL LUGERS
SN 4 .45 LUGER
The below information was added to the original article on 8-24-04.
Description of .45 Luger examined by Reinhard Kornmayer while visiting in Florida during 1991. Referred to here in as sn 4 .45 Luger. Reinhard was kind enough to supply the following information.
1. Serial number 4, location not recorded
2. Markings: American Eagle over chamber and George Luger intertwined GL at rear of rear toggle link.
3. Grip angle: 55 degrees (like all production Lugers and Army .45 cal Luger.)
4. Back grip strap shape: rounded like Aberman/Norton Luger (not abrupt like Army .45 cal Luger)
5. Bottom of trigger guard of is not horizontal and gradually converges with long axis of barrel.
The sn 4 .45 Luger has the grip angle of the Army .45 cal Luger (photograph) and the grip shape of the Aberman/Nortom Lugers!
Documentation has yet to surface indicating how many .45 caliber Lugers were sent to the U.S. Army for the 1907 tests or how many were actually manufactured. Datig (1955/1962, page 111) indicates that there were two test Lugers, one was consumed in the tests, another survived (the Aberman). Jones (1959/1975, shows both the Abernam and Norton Luger (frontispiece and page 108). Kenyon (1969, page 110) states that serial number one was used in the test and number 2 was back up. Meadows(1993) in “U.S. Military Automatic Pistols 1894-1920" states that: ...“the prevailing consensus is that the likely number is three, one prototype and two for the U.S. Test trials of 1907.” Walter in “Luger” page 82 states that: “August Weiss has stated that, to the best of his recollection, his predecessor as superintendent of DWM pistol production, Heinrich Hoffman, once mentioned that only four to six .45 cal Parabellums were ever made.
The three Lugers discussed above (Army .45 cal, Abernam and Norton) have been documented through photographs and in publications and have an established provenance. Other .45 caliber Lugers have been reported. Sometimes they are repeated reports (and sometimes photographs) of the two established Lugers or vague rumors of .45 cal Lugers that lack photographs or documentation. In “Luger Variations” (1975) frontispiece Jones states that ....”contrary to constantly fabricated stories, there are only two known examples of this impressive oversized model(the Abernam and the Norton).
An example of the use of vague rumors to build a case for additional .45 cal Lugers is given on page 81 and 82 of Walter’s book Luger. Walter makes a case for fourteen .45 cal Lugers. He bases it on the following:
1. Persistent reports from North America state that guns numbered 0 and 4 were found in Germany in 1945 and taken as war trophies.
2. One is known to bear the number 14 on the rear toggle link. On page 82 a photograph of serial number 14 Luger is shown. Based on several distinctive marks in the photograph (blemish on the grip, grain in the grip, C/N on the left receiver, front sight(note; front sight is cropped in the photograph) wear lines on the grip safety) it can be easily determined that the photograph is of the Norton Luger.** The only number on this Luger is a 3 on its magazine base.
Without knowing the source of the persistent reports from North America, the Luger collector/historian cannot investigate and determine the truth and reliability of the statements. Also, the fact that the Luger photograph (shown on page 82, Luger) that Walter reports to be Luger serial number 14 is really the Norton Luger bearing only the number 3 on its magazine base, discredits Walters case for fourteen .45 caliber Lugers manufactured.
Near exact replicas of the .45 Luger are currently being manufactured in quantity and reports of original .45 Lugers without substantial previously published documentation or where the documentation is held secret should be taken with a grain of salt.
Information on additional .45 cal Lugers (manufactured in about 1907) would be most welcome, particularly those with available documentation.
REFERENCES CITED
Annual Report of the Chief of Ordnance, 1907 Appendix: Report of Board on Tests Of Revolvers and Automatic Pistols
Datig, “The Luger Pistol” 1955/1962, page 111
Jones, Archives
Jones, “Luger Variations”1959
Jones, “Luger Variations” 4th printing, 1975
Kenyon, “Lugers at Random”, 1969
Kornmayer, August 2004 correspondance
Meadows, “U.S. Military Automatic Pistols 1894-1920", 1993
Still, “Imperial Lugers”, 1991, page 209-214
U.S. War Dept, Annual report of the Secretary of War, 1907, Vol 6. Report of the Chief of Ordnance, Appendix. Report of Board on Tests of Revolvers and Automatic Pistols. March 28, 1907.
Walther “Luger” 1977
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Hi,
Well it appears we share an opinion about the .45s. I sincerely doubt that two different lugers with different grip angles were supplied for the test and therefore none of the surviving lugers qualifies as a 1907 test luger.
I believe that the Abermann/Norton lugers, that were taken from DWM locations were actually pre-production attempts, improved versions based upon the originals that were produced upon Georg Luger's work.
Funnily enough, the only 45 that qualifies as a test-survivor in my opinion is the one in Ralph Shattucks hands, converted to a carabine.
Below is a picture that compares the tails of the Shattuck 45, the Abermann 45 and the original test-45.
The Shattuck 45 has a stock lug added (pinned on) and has a shape identical to the test-45. Interestingly, this carabine has serial number 21 (We know where one of it's magazines is
.
I would not be suprised if the 1907 GL 45s had serial numbers 20 and 21 and that the carabine was assembled using a surviving test 45.
Download Attachment: tails.jpg
13.45KB
Well it appears we share an opinion about the .45s. I sincerely doubt that two different lugers with different grip angles were supplied for the test and therefore none of the surviving lugers qualifies as a 1907 test luger.
I believe that the Abermann/Norton lugers, that were taken from DWM locations were actually pre-production attempts, improved versions based upon the originals that were produced upon Georg Luger's work.
Funnily enough, the only 45 that qualifies as a test-survivor in my opinion is the one in Ralph Shattucks hands, converted to a carabine.
Below is a picture that compares the tails of the Shattuck 45, the Abermann 45 and the original test-45.
The Shattuck 45 has a stock lug added (pinned on) and has a shape identical to the test-45. Interestingly, this carabine has serial number 21 (We know where one of it's magazines is
.I would not be suprised if the 1907 GL 45s had serial numbers 20 and 21 and that the carabine was assembled using a surviving test 45.
Download Attachment:
tails.jpg13.45KB
Hi Jan,
There's an awful lot of time between 1907 and 1913 and as Ed stated, I believe some guns were returned to DWM after the trials ended. It may well be that following the tests an improved DWM design was forwarded to the armory, being rejected again and late sold off. There is also some 30 years between the initial sale at the armory and the first follow-up sale and a lot can happen inbetween, like acquisition of more than one 45. I would not be surprised if more than one 45 circulated around in the early days, causing mix-ups and confusions.
Another problem is that the 45 in the trial photos has a cannon that rests deeper into the frame (note the space between the receiver top and the sideplate top) than the Aberman/Norton combo, suggesting it is of different construction alltogether.
Examination of surviving 45 magazines may be interesting, as I remember the trials reported that during the tests the magazine spring of one of the test magazines was clipped a number of times in an attempt to improve feeding. It would therefore be relatively simple to track down the magazine that was used in the tests.
As the Aberman gun was never photographed in the eary days, and especially not during the tests, I continue to have serious doubts.
The suggestion that 3 45s may have been tested starts to make a lot of sense. If the prototype was photographed and differed from the actual test lugers, then it starts to come together. Then the possibility that the prototype, numbered 21, was turned into a carabine, it's magazine getting combined with one of the test lugers, Aberman #2 with magazine 21. Continuing, the serial numbering of the other test pistols makes sense:
21 - Prototype, photographed and added to 1907 test data.
1 - Test, Norton/Aberman style, destroyed
2 - Test, Aberman style, sold with prototype magazine 21.
3 - DWM sample, proofed and 'released' from DWM after 1945 -> Norton
4 - Whereabouts Unknown
5 - Whereabouts Unknown
6 - Whereabouts Unknown
I could live with that
There's an awful lot of time between 1907 and 1913 and as Ed stated, I believe some guns were returned to DWM after the trials ended. It may well be that following the tests an improved DWM design was forwarded to the armory, being rejected again and late sold off. There is also some 30 years between the initial sale at the armory and the first follow-up sale and a lot can happen inbetween, like acquisition of more than one 45. I would not be surprised if more than one 45 circulated around in the early days, causing mix-ups and confusions.
Another problem is that the 45 in the trial photos has a cannon that rests deeper into the frame (note the space between the receiver top and the sideplate top) than the Aberman/Norton combo, suggesting it is of different construction alltogether.
Examination of surviving 45 magazines may be interesting, as I remember the trials reported that during the tests the magazine spring of one of the test magazines was clipped a number of times in an attempt to improve feeding. It would therefore be relatively simple to track down the magazine that was used in the tests.
As the Aberman gun was never photographed in the eary days, and especially not during the tests, I continue to have serious doubts.
The suggestion that 3 45s may have been tested starts to make a lot of sense. If the prototype was photographed and differed from the actual test lugers, then it starts to come together. Then the possibility that the prototype, numbered 21, was turned into a carabine, it's magazine getting combined with one of the test lugers, Aberman #2 with magazine 21. Continuing, the serial numbering of the other test pistols makes sense:
21 - Prototype, photographed and added to 1907 test data.
1 - Test, Norton/Aberman style, destroyed
2 - Test, Aberman style, sold with prototype magazine 21.
3 - DWM sample, proofed and 'released' from DWM after 1945 -> Norton
4 - Whereabouts Unknown
5 - Whereabouts Unknown
6 - Whereabouts Unknown
I could live with that
1 - 20 of 111 Posts
