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A C96 in a “Maestranza De Manila US” marked holster

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#1 ·
A C96 in a “Maestranza De Manila US” marked holster



During the Philippine insurrection (1899-1902) Mauser C96 were used by some US Army personnel and carried in a holster reportedly made at the US Army arsenal located at the Maestranza in Manila.. These holsters were made for C96 and colt pistols and marked “Maestranza de Manila” and a large “US” .
Pictures show C96 # 25707 and its Maestranza holster that came together from
an old collection. The flatside is all matching, shows little use with some surface wear from holster storage. Holster is well made, modest use, copper rivets secure the belt loop.

Information about two other C96 with their Maestranza holsters has been published:

Flatside #26841 with US Army history was auctioned by Rock Island (http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/53/lid/3129 ) and

Conehammer # 5467 was mentioned in Meadow’s book “U.S. Military Holsters and Pistol Cartridge Boxes”.

The serial number proximity of flatsides 25707 and 26841 suggested the possibility of a group purchase for US Army personnel. This prompted a call to Mauser Guru Joe Schroeder who provided another flatside C96 #26234 that came with a C96 Maestranza holster and Philippine provenance. This cluster of 3 flatside serials strengthens the possibility of a group acquisition, presumably by private purchase. It is odd that not one is marked by Von Lengerke and Detmold ,the sole US importer of C96 at that time. VLD records are not available to explain the special “no mark” treatment possibly given to the US buyer of these 3 flatsides . On the other hand, Mauser may have sent this group order directly to the Philippines.
The C96 Maestranza US holster identifies an unusual broomhandle that was actually used by the US Army during the Philippine insurrection.
B Regds, John
 
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#2 ·
GREAT HOLSTER! {pistol ain't bad either} Can't imagine why the American purchaser would've bypassed VL&D for these guns in the Phillippeans, unless procured straight from Mauser. But, if Schroeder doesn't know, nobody would. Very nice outfit, and thanks for showing it.
Mike
 
#7 ·
Thank you gentlemen for your comments. The question came up about why personal acquisition (vs. govt purchase) is assumed for these C96. It could be possible that some US Army purchases are not marked. as US property. Also about the absent importer marks, it is unknown how fastidious VLD was in marking all their imports. It is known however that the status VLD as the sole US importer of Mauser was very stringently controlled.
Perhaps Mauro’s review of Mauser records will shed some light on this transaction.
John
 
#8 ·
Hello John,
I have noted the serial numbers you mention and I will check if we can find any additional information in the Paul Mauser private archive.

With Gerben, we just finished a new article about the "C96 Mexican Contract"... a really nice and totally unpublished find. We have quite a number of new finds related to contracts and special acquisition and we will publish this material in articles.

The Mexican Contract article has been already sent to the publisher in USA (Man at Arms - the magazine for antique gun and sword collectors) but I do not have yet the schedule. I will keep informed the C96 fellows.

Cheers,
Mauro
 
#10 · (Edited)
John
Excellect Broomhandle and Holster. You have put forward an interesting idea that these guns were not privately purchased
C96s that were taken to the Phillipines. Here is another example that supports the idea that these "Maestranza de Manila"
C96s were in a tight serial number range. This one is SN 26304.

Also attached are some pages of the Annual Report for the US War Department in 1901. These pages have details of the work at the Harness Shop at the Maestranza de Manila. It indicates that 84 Holsters were made during this time period for Mauser pistols.

 
#12 ·
Mike that is great information, both your additional flatside 26304 with its holster, and also the 1901 report of 84 mauser holsters made. So now the flatside cluster has grown to four with
25707, 26234, 26304, 26841, plus an aberrant(so far)conehammer, and a total of 5 holsters out of the 84 made, presumably all for the C96. Very interesting, thanks so much.
John
 
#15 ·
This thread just gets better and better. Are there any surviving examples of the " 72 cartridge boxes, Mauser pistol, " listed in the 1901 report? Itwould be really nice to see a picture of one of these added to the thread. Thanks to all who have posted.

William
 
#16 ·
An update on the Maestranza C96:
The current number is 3 conehammers, 6 flatsides and one six shot #29589. Only the six shot is VLD marked, and is also engraved to a lt. Loud.
The flat sides are 25707,26234,26304,26340,26826,26841. An additional C96 flatside was observed with a MdeM holster, but serial number is unknown.
Hopefully some more C96 with MdeM heritage will surface to strengthen the flatside group acquisition idea. However, with the C96 identification usually dependant upon the survival of an associated holster that was exposed to harsh topical conditions, the MdeM C96 probably will be rare.
B Regds, John
 
#18 ·
I believe the C96 Mauser was tested on four occasions by U.S. Ordnance, but in each case the recommendation was made not to accept the pistol. Unless possibly the last test, none of the pistol came through Von Lengerke & Detmold. VL&D tried to interest U.S. Ordnance in fielding some of the pistols for further testing, but this was also turned down.

In all probability it was U.S. officers that ordered the C96 for their personal sidearm.
 
#19 ·
I'm just seeing this thread for the first time. John, you have an exceptional rig and it is hard to imagine a nicer one. Congratulations! (and let me know if it ever becomes available ;) )

My belief is that most if not all of the C96 pistols supplied to the U.S. Army for the trials in 1900-1902 were supplied via VL&D. My understanding is that no serial numbers were kept of these pistols and they were returned to VL&D upon completion of the trials. What VL&D did with them is sort of a mystery, but I've often wondered if they are the same guns that ended up in the Philippines? Attached is a page from “The Broomhandle Mauser” where it shows some of the correspondence between U.S. Army officials and VL&D.
 

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#20 ·
Thank you Johnny and Ryan for bringing up the VLD involvement in US Army trials of the C96. Those trials were covered extensively by Meadows in “US Military Automatic Pistols”. Meadows also included information/letters that reveal the enthusiastic support of the C96 by a some US Army officers including a Captain Foltz in Cuba and also Lt Col Phipps who was Commanding Officer at Springfield Armory.
Speaking of C96 source, a knowledgeable MdeM C96 collector is convinced that the MdeM C96 were captured from Spain during the Spanish American war.
B Regds, John
 
#23 ·
I just discovered this forum, so I am several years late with this information. I have a NON-flatside C-96, large ring hammer S/N 30-4XXX that was carried in the Philipines by the father (a colonel) of a WWII friend of my father (both deceased). There is no holster associated with it, unfortunately. It is marked Von Lengerke & Detmold. I purchased it from the widow of my father's friend, but had discussed its provenance at length while he was still alive. He had had it reblued, but the gun is so pitted that there was no way to remove the pitting. Don't know where this gun would fit in the scheme of things. Perhaps the colonel purchased it on his own. There are no military markings on it.
Stay well and safe! Happy Holidays!
 
#24 ·
Thanks Trailrider for describing your interesting large ring, apparently in early 30k serial range, with Philippine US military history. Presumably this could have been a private purchase by officer, but does bring up the thought that some of these Manila US-C96 ( even with holster), could still be hiding in the Philippines. Note that there were 84 mauser pistol holsters made at the Harness Shop at the Maestranza de Manila.
BRegds, John
 
#28 ·
An update on the Maestranza C96:
The current number is 3 conehammers, 6 flatsides and one six shot #29589. Only the six shot is VLD marked, and is also engraved to a lt. Loud.
The flat sides are 25707,26234,26304,26340,26826,26841. An additional C96 flatside was observed with a MdeM holster, but serial number is unknown.
Hopefully some more C96 with MdeM heritage will surface to strengthen the flatside group acquisition idea. However, with the C96 identification usually dependant upon the survival of an associated holster that was exposed to harsh topical conditions, the MdeM C96 probably will be rare.
B Regds, John
John, I'm wondering how you identified the six-shot C96 #29589 with the U.S. Army associated guns? I assume it came in a MdeM marked holster? Do you know if it was slotted for a shoulder stock?

The reason I ask is because I recently acquired #29568 and it does not have a shoulder stock slot which is highly unusual (and no it was never filled in). The German Test guns from a few years earlier came with slotted and un-slotted variants for their trials (I believe so that during accuracy testing they could ensure the stock was not used when testing the hand-held mode), so wondering if the lack of a stock slot on my piece could be an indicator of test piece for the U.S. trials? Below is a link to where the pistol sold at auction in 2013..

 
#25 ·
John, I see that this is an old thread that has resurfaced perhaps due to the format change of the forum. Regardless, it is a very educational thread, on a very rare variation. Thank you for starting it and to those who have contributed. I am surprised to see examples that saw service in the Philippines survived in such good condition.

Best regards,
 
#27 · (Edited)
Found a picture of this postcard on the web sometime back. Capture weapons from the Phillipines. The postcard is dated 1911, and pictured are two large rings. One is not a flatside, hard to tell about the other. There is a strong possibility that the other side has access to C96 pistols as well as the US during this conflict.

Wood Photograph Monochrome photography Snapshot Black-and-white


Here is the other side. This was sent to General Pershing who was station in the Phillipines from 1909 to 1913.

Text Photograph Handwriting Mail Paper product
 
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