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Fig1. Imperial DWM P08 #6513 was converted for police use, but in my limited experience it received an especially through reworking.


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Fig2.The two imperial inspection proofs and test proof on right receiver indicate that 6513 originally was either a 1910 or 1911 product . These particular proofs were observed in both years ( WOL page284,285).


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Fig3.However, the 1910 and 1911 DWM P08s were dated on chamber, and 6513 has a blank chamber except for a small crown/gothic letter(G?). Presumably the date was ground off the chamber that was then stamped with small crown/gothic letter proof. This chamber mark is not recorded by Costanzo and presumably is a rare stamp in this location. Any other sightings? Note the erfurt proof on the barrel.


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Fig 4. 1910 and 1911 DWM P08 were numbered consecutively to the 1908 production, so serial numbers are in the b,c,d,e, blocks(Imperial Lugers). However 6513 does not have an alphabet with its frame serial. The contour of the front frame appears original and has not been “shaved”. Upon closer examination, it is obvious that the serial numbers are larger than original DWM imperial numbers. Apparently the original numbers/letter were removed and the original radius of the frame duplicated. P08 6513 also received a new erfurt proofed barrel (fig 3), and shows a badly misaligned witness mark. I understand that erfurt proofed barrels were used by DWM for their later imperial P08 production, but not on the early imperial P08s.


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Fig 5. Police issue stamps on front grip strap of 6513 , Schutzpolizei Düsseldorf . It was fitted with a sear safely (gone), mag safety(gone), and relieved sear.


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Fig6. The grips of 6513 are numbered with all four digits, in a manner similar to grips from Simson. However there are no Simson proofs to be found on 6513. In addition to the chamber proof and holdopen added proof, there is only one other proof, a C/N on breechblock. Well, to be completely accurate, one grip screw also has an erfurt proof.


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Fig 7. Except for one grip, 6513 is all matching(commercial style serials) and also has two matching E/L marked Haenel Schmeisser magazines.


I am not that familiar with reworked lugers, and constantly confused by Weimar products. But 6513 appears to have been subjected to more grinding than the usual rework with a paucity of proofs. Would appreciate your thoughts.
John
 

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Hi John,

This is all conjecture on my part, but I would be willing to bet that this was assembled from left over parts. The front of the frame doesn't look shaved. It is still flush with the barrel extension. I don't see why the crown proof would be added after the date was removed. What would be the point. I would doubt that it was ever dated. And the radius of the chamber looks unaltered and equal all the way around. An odd and interesting Luger.

Ron
 

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Hi John,
* FWIW: The chamber mark may well be a Crown/G indicating a rework by either Simson or Mauser. Check Costanzo item 128 & 128A on Pg. 195.
* Been advised by Jan Still to put little faith into the exact interpretation given by Sam C. on this stamp as the form, qty. of pips, location, and frequency of use seen over about a decade of rework pistols may suggest multiple rework houses could have use a wide range of dies over the years.
* OBTW: The side marked Haenel mags might give a clue as to the era of rework. I believe these did not show up until the early 30's; so, this may suggest at least a starting point for the last rework this pistol received. Thought you'd like to contemplate this clue.
* Anyway, nice looking piece. Thanks for showing us they didn't all come from the same "mold".
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Bob, it certainly would be wonderful if all those identifications in WOL were bombproof. Thanks for the reference.

Ron, I agree that it doesn’t make sense to do all this grinding, and usually not done on police reworks. When I compare by eyeball the thickness of 6513 chamber top with thickness of contemporary P08s, the chamber top is definitely thinner on 6513. Also I enclose picture showing the original smaller 513 numbers on bottom of receiver.Doesn't that indicate an original receiver? I agree that the chamber radius and also the radius on frame front look original. If redone, it was by an expert. When I first got 6513 I thought it was a 1908 (blank chamber,no alpha)with a goofy 1910 proof.
I also enclose close-up of the frame numbers; there might even be a residual number within that 5.
Interesting observation about frame/extension difference. I compared 5313 to some other shaved frames , and most frames/extensions were eyeball-flush, similar to 5313. Surprise to me.Thanks for your ideas Ron
John

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John, I have one weimar police that appears not to be a reblue from after that time period, but the imperial proofs are fairly "wiped"...

Nice gun John, I like it,

Ed
 
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