Jan C. Still Lugerforums banner
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Here is a Weimar reworked P08 that bears two eagle proofmarks that I could not find among the 297 pictured in WOL. Question is if these are rare eagles or did they just get lost in the crowd when Castanzo published his book?
Pictures have been reposted in following topic: http://luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=16395



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P08 2645m was a 1917 LP08 and retains the original imperial proofs on right receiver. During the Weimar era it was stamped 1920 on chamber and received a new barrel at the Berlin Police Armory. They stamped the right side of barrel (at 2:00) with their PTV/eagle proof , which looks like PTV variant #26 in WOL(has T-bar on top). FWIW, Castanzo refers to this as a rare proof used for lugers retained for testing /experimental purposes. (Is this indeed a rare proof?)

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On left side of barrel at 11:00 are found E/43 and E/49.Hard to get good pictures of these marks, so I hopefully include two pictures.

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Barrel also bears a caliber proof and a number "4"on bottom.

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Over the years, this police P08 also had mag and sear safeties installed, and front grip strap was marked and scrubbed.It was stamped with sunburst/D in center of rear toggle(significance?)and retained #1 matching mag.

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Question is if Castanzo just over looked E/43 and E/49, or were these inspectors working at the Berlin Police Armory for only a short time and proofed very few barrels? Or perhaps they were borrowed from another weapons rework division and their proof mark is more common on other police/army nonP08 items? When E/43 and E/49 are observed, are they always together?And are they always associated with the Berlin Police Armory? And, if so, are they associated with the PTV variant mark #26 of this Armory?
Thanks,John
 

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John : I am personally not familiar with eagle 43 and 49 proofs but do know that there was a eagle 46. Are we sure that it is not a 46 rather than your 43 & 49 proofs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks John, but it looks more like a 49 than like a 46. Position of marks on barrel curvature makes it difficult to decipher and to photograph. FWIW Costanzo notes that the E/46 (simson mark) is found on mags and receivers, no mention of barrels. Is this valid?
I enclose another hopefully better picture of the E/49 and E/43.

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Download Attachment: 43b.jpg
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I just read Dwight Gruber's excellent Auto Mag review of his witness mark investigation ( a good place such articles especially for those of us not facile internet users)and enclose pictures of the witness mark on 2645, because it represents a definite rebarrel job. The mark is nicely aligned and depending on the shape of the tool used(and the experience of the viewer) could pass as a perfectly aligned mark.





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However by passing light horizontally down the cleaned groove, you can appreciate what appears to be a teeny weeny spur on the bottom of the groove at the barrel/receiver interface . One could imagine that this represented some metal gouged from the softer barrel by a rough edge on receiver witness mark, as the two surfaces were ground together.Hopefully this little flake will show in photo. It can be felt as an irregularity on groove bottom with a sharpened toothpick.


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Thanks,John
 
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