Enclosed I am sending a comparation table with Army test SN from German & Dutch Trials. Order & delivery dates from Dutch trial pistols are known and verified (Bas Martens). All the Dutch test pistols were ordered 12/1904 and delivered 4/1905 (7.65 mm) and 8/1905 (9 mm).
Look on the table and you can see several SN, close placed. Three pistols side by side and 3 years difference?
SN, DESTINATION, CALIBRE, BARREL LENGHT, ORDERED - DELIVERED
22219 Dutch Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 12/1904 - 4/1905
22221 Dutch Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 12/1904 - 4/1905
22225 Dutch Army Test, 9 mm, 96 mm barrel, 12/1904 - 8/1905
22235 German Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 1902 ??
22240 Dutch Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 12/1904 - 4/1905
22244 German Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 1902 ??
22263 Dutch Army Test, 9 mm, 96 mm barrel, 12/1904 - 8/1905
22286 German Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 1902 ??
22289 Dutch Army Test, 9 mm, 96 mm barrel, 12/1904 - 8/1905
22296 Dutch Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 12/1904 - 4/1905
22314 German Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 1902 ??
22323 German Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 1902 ??
22329 German Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 1902 ??
22335 German Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 1902 ??
22339 Dutch Army Test, 9 mm, 96 mm barrel, 12/1904 - 8/1905
22348 German Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 1902 ??
22360 Dutch Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 12/1904 - 4/1905
22361 Dutch Army Test, 9 mm, 96 mm barrel, 12/1904 - 8/1905
22362 German Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 1902 ??
22364 German Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 1902 ??
22365 German Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 1902 ??
22385 German Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 1902 ??
For German army test were delivered 55 (15 with grip safety) pistols, for Dutch test 109 pistols in 7,65 mm and 55 in 9 mm calibre. Total 219 pistols. Following group of Cartridge counters is beginning at 22401. In my humble opinion the group of mixed Dutch and German test pistols started by 22180. 22181 + 219 = 22400.
Mr Görtz in last printing "Die Pistole 08" demostrate as a true Army test 1902 (one from forty) Luger SN 9903 from G. Sturgess collection without grip safety and with "Gesichert" marking in high position. No army acceptance. In my humble opinion it is a fake/rework, because no other Luger with "Gesichert" marking in high position found in this SN range.
The second Luger from G. Sturgess collection the Mr. Görtz demonstarte as a true Army test 1902 (one from fifteen) is Luger SN 10199 with grip safety. This pistol is accepted on frame and reciever Crown / V. Rear toggle was changed.
All the Army test Lugers have short receiver and short frame with thin upper part in safety lever section. No difference between 7,65 or 9 mm! (German Army test 2223X)
Download Attachment:
2.JPG
69.52 KB
"Common" 1900 Lugers are equipped with long receiver and long frame with thick upper part in safety lever section.(Swiss Army SN 1166)
Download Attachment: 1.JPG
84.94 KB
P.08 and derived Lugers differs from both types of frame: Reciever is short and short frame has thick upper part in safety lever section.
(Navy 1917)
Download Attachment: 3.JPG
86.89 KB
Jan "Hoba" Balcar
Look on the table and you can see several SN, close placed. Three pistols side by side and 3 years difference?
SN, DESTINATION, CALIBRE, BARREL LENGHT, ORDERED - DELIVERED
22219 Dutch Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 12/1904 - 4/1905
22221 Dutch Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 12/1904 - 4/1905
22225 Dutch Army Test, 9 mm, 96 mm barrel, 12/1904 - 8/1905
22235 German Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 1902 ??
22240 Dutch Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 12/1904 - 4/1905
22244 German Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 1902 ??
22263 Dutch Army Test, 9 mm, 96 mm barrel, 12/1904 - 8/1905
22286 German Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 1902 ??
22289 Dutch Army Test, 9 mm, 96 mm barrel, 12/1904 - 8/1905
22296 Dutch Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 12/1904 - 4/1905
22314 German Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 1902 ??
22323 German Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 1902 ??
22329 German Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 1902 ??
22335 German Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 1902 ??
22339 Dutch Army Test, 9 mm, 96 mm barrel, 12/1904 - 8/1905
22348 German Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 1902 ??
22360 Dutch Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 12/1904 - 4/1905
22361 Dutch Army Test, 9 mm, 96 mm barrel, 12/1904 - 8/1905
22362 German Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 1902 ??
22364 German Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 1902 ??
22365 German Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 1902 ??
22385 German Army Test, 7,65 mm, 96 mm barrel, 1902 ??
For German army test were delivered 55 (15 with grip safety) pistols, for Dutch test 109 pistols in 7,65 mm and 55 in 9 mm calibre. Total 219 pistols. Following group of Cartridge counters is beginning at 22401. In my humble opinion the group of mixed Dutch and German test pistols started by 22180. 22181 + 219 = 22400.
Mr Görtz in last printing "Die Pistole 08" demostrate as a true Army test 1902 (one from forty) Luger SN 9903 from G. Sturgess collection without grip safety and with "Gesichert" marking in high position. No army acceptance. In my humble opinion it is a fake/rework, because no other Luger with "Gesichert" marking in high position found in this SN range.
The second Luger from G. Sturgess collection the Mr. Görtz demonstarte as a true Army test 1902 (one from fifteen) is Luger SN 10199 with grip safety. This pistol is accepted on frame and reciever Crown / V. Rear toggle was changed.
All the Army test Lugers have short receiver and short frame with thin upper part in safety lever section. No difference between 7,65 or 9 mm! (German Army test 2223X)
Download Attachment:
2.JPG69.52 KB
"Common" 1900 Lugers are equipped with long receiver and long frame with thick upper part in safety lever section.(Swiss Army SN 1166)
Download Attachment:
1.JPG84.94 KB
P.08 and derived Lugers differs from both types of frame: Reciever is short and short frame has thick upper part in safety lever section.
(Navy 1917)
Download Attachment:
3.JPG86.89 KB
Jan "Hoba" Balcar
