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All,
* My good friend & fellow collector Mike Morris happened upon this fine, original finish and matching numbered example in the Sept.,'04 Dallas Market Hall Show. Somewhat later we were reviewing Mike's latest "rig acquisition" and agreed it would make a wonderful example to illustrate an unaltered '08 DWM 1st Issue with the Forum members. My thanks to Mike for his digitals pics (which I have enhanced) & for sharing this example with us.
* After numerous pistol trials, what has become a historic initial contract between the German Imperial Army and DWM was finalized on 2 Dec., 1908. This 50,000 pistol commitment confirmed the Army's acceptance of the P.08's 4" barrel configuration & launched the 1908 1st Issue P.08. An estimated production of 25,000 First Issues is reported in the S/N range 34ns to 4828b per Jan Still's, Imperial Lugers, Pg. 20. The 1st Issue Luger characteristically has no chamber date, no stock lug, S/N's marked in the commercial (hidden) style, and final Inspection/Proof marks uniquely on the L/H side of the receiver. Note, also, this pistol has not had the sear relieved as was the original issue configuration.
Download Attachment:
MM_08_1st_Issue_lhs_SN_ 2988ns.jpg
104.28 KB
* The low S/N of 2988ns suggests this pistol could have been one of the 3,000 pistols schedule for the first delivery increment in late March, 1909. While the initial contract was signed on behalf of the Prussian government, intuitively leading me to expected the Prussian Army Units were to be first equiped, this example either lagged the first increment's shipment or it suggests an interesting deviation from intuitive expectations.
Download Attachment: MM_08_1st_Issue_SN_2988ns.jpg
55.33 KB
* Unusual after 95 years, this example came with an original matching mag. As expected, the S/N is marked along the longitudinal axis of the base, will not have an accompanying suffix letter (until 1911), and is in a larger numeric font from later DWM Army magazine examples.
Download Attachment: MM_08_1st_Issue_matmag_SN_2988ns.jpg
62.02 KB
* Many guns serving officers in 1913-1914 were returned to the Erfurt arsenal for hold-opens to be added. However, this examples shows no modification having been done to add a hold open as was ordered by a May 13, 1913 directive. The right hand side reveals no evidence of a cross pin to hold the hold open as is seen on many Prussian issued examples known to date.
Download Attachment: MM_08_1st_Issue_rhs_SN_2988ns.jpg
87.35 KB
* Unit markings on the grip strap denote issue to the Bavarian Army. I interpret this "B.11.R.M.G.24." marking to mean the 24th pistol issued to the Machine Gun Company of the Bavarian's 11th Infantry Regiment. Confirmation of this interpretation would be welcomed.
Download Attachment: MM_08_1st_Issue_gripmark_SN_2988ns.jpg
65.16 KB
* John Walter goes into some depth on the Bavarian Army's attempt to comply with the May, 1913 directive on pgs. 32 & 214 of The Luger Book. After a unacceptable solicitation to the Amberg arsenal, John writes the Bavarians approached Erfurt and DWM. Quoting Mr. Walter, "On 2/9/14, the Bavarians finally placed an order with Erfurt and made plans to collect their guns. Eventually 20,204 were gathered together of which 20,068 required conversion. On 7/31/14, however, the Landau commandant informed the Feldzeugmeisterei that pistol gathering would be suspended. Owing to the unsettled political situation, the local Units were unwilling to return their service pistols. On 8/2/1914, German mobilization for WWI commenced. So, Bavarian guns were not shipped after all. It is debatable whether they were collected subsequently, though Erfurt began conversion of the Prussian guns in mid 1913. It is interesting to speculate those without hold-opens may be Bavarian. Unit markings may help to prove this point."
* This, then, might be one of those possible point maker.
* As an aside for those recording details, <s>IIRC the "C/Z" acceptance does not seem to be double crown marked</s> the right most Inspector's Acceptance stamp is a doublet overstamp as has been previously observed on other 1st Issue examples. (corrected per the 10/10/04 post below). The barrel S/N does not exhibit a "halo".
* Trust you all have enjoyed.
** (5/28/07 - Pictures reloaded to applicable RockinWR posts)**
* My good friend & fellow collector Mike Morris happened upon this fine, original finish and matching numbered example in the Sept.,'04 Dallas Market Hall Show. Somewhat later we were reviewing Mike's latest "rig acquisition" and agreed it would make a wonderful example to illustrate an unaltered '08 DWM 1st Issue with the Forum members. My thanks to Mike for his digitals pics (which I have enhanced) & for sharing this example with us.
* After numerous pistol trials, what has become a historic initial contract between the German Imperial Army and DWM was finalized on 2 Dec., 1908. This 50,000 pistol commitment confirmed the Army's acceptance of the P.08's 4" barrel configuration & launched the 1908 1st Issue P.08. An estimated production of 25,000 First Issues is reported in the S/N range 34ns to 4828b per Jan Still's, Imperial Lugers, Pg. 20. The 1st Issue Luger characteristically has no chamber date, no stock lug, S/N's marked in the commercial (hidden) style, and final Inspection/Proof marks uniquely on the L/H side of the receiver. Note, also, this pistol has not had the sear relieved as was the original issue configuration.
Download Attachment:
MM_08_1st_Issue_lhs_SN_ 2988ns.jpg104.28 KB
* The low S/N of 2988ns suggests this pistol could have been one of the 3,000 pistols schedule for the first delivery increment in late March, 1909. While the initial contract was signed on behalf of the Prussian government, intuitively leading me to expected the Prussian Army Units were to be first equiped, this example either lagged the first increment's shipment or it suggests an interesting deviation from intuitive expectations.
Download Attachment:
MM_08_1st_Issue_SN_2988ns.jpg55.33 KB
* Unusual after 95 years, this example came with an original matching mag. As expected, the S/N is marked along the longitudinal axis of the base, will not have an accompanying suffix letter (until 1911), and is in a larger numeric font from later DWM Army magazine examples.
Download Attachment:
MM_08_1st_Issue_matmag_SN_2988ns.jpg62.02 KB
* Many guns serving officers in 1913-1914 were returned to the Erfurt arsenal for hold-opens to be added. However, this examples shows no modification having been done to add a hold open as was ordered by a May 13, 1913 directive. The right hand side reveals no evidence of a cross pin to hold the hold open as is seen on many Prussian issued examples known to date.
Download Attachment:
MM_08_1st_Issue_rhs_SN_2988ns.jpg87.35 KB
* Unit markings on the grip strap denote issue to the Bavarian Army. I interpret this "B.11.R.M.G.24." marking to mean the 24th pistol issued to the Machine Gun Company of the Bavarian's 11th Infantry Regiment. Confirmation of this interpretation would be welcomed.
Download Attachment:
MM_08_1st_Issue_gripmark_SN_2988ns.jpg65.16 KB
* John Walter goes into some depth on the Bavarian Army's attempt to comply with the May, 1913 directive on pgs. 32 & 214 of The Luger Book. After a unacceptable solicitation to the Amberg arsenal, John writes the Bavarians approached Erfurt and DWM. Quoting Mr. Walter, "On 2/9/14, the Bavarians finally placed an order with Erfurt and made plans to collect their guns. Eventually 20,204 were gathered together of which 20,068 required conversion. On 7/31/14, however, the Landau commandant informed the Feldzeugmeisterei that pistol gathering would be suspended. Owing to the unsettled political situation, the local Units were unwilling to return their service pistols. On 8/2/1914, German mobilization for WWI commenced. So, Bavarian guns were not shipped after all. It is debatable whether they were collected subsequently, though Erfurt began conversion of the Prussian guns in mid 1913. It is interesting to speculate those without hold-opens may be Bavarian. Unit markings may help to prove this point."
* This, then, might be one of those possible point maker.
* As an aside for those recording details, <s>IIRC the "C/Z" acceptance does not seem to be double crown marked</s> the right most Inspector's Acceptance stamp is a doublet overstamp as has been previously observed on other 1st Issue examples. (corrected per the 10/10/04 post below). The barrel S/N does not exhibit a "halo".
* Trust you all have enjoyed.
** (5/28/07 - Pictures reloaded to applicable RockinWR posts)**
MM_08_1st_Issue_ rcvr proofs_SN_2988ns.jpg
MM_08_1st_Issue_clear_ rcvr_proofs_SN2988ns.jpg
MM_08_1st_Issue_Rt_Rcvr_mark_Sketch_SN2988ns.jpg
MM_08_1st_Issue_bbl_accept_SN_2988ns.jpg
