[Fritz]

Pictured here are two late Beretta Modells 1935, SN 595 715 and SN 599 269 with black parkerized finish and German 4UT quality control stamp.
SN 595 715 was procured by the Germans 1944/45. The pistol shows the complete legend on the slide and the SN on frame, slide and barrel.
Interesting is the postwar East German( DDR )VOPO sunburst mark containing a shield enclosing a 12. This stamp stands for" Bezirk 12 der Deutschen Volkspolizei - Dresden" ( district 12 of the German Peoples Police - City of Dresden ).


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SN 599 269 was procured early 1945 by the German Army Headquarters in Italy. This pistol shows only one SN located on the right side of the frame.
The slide is without any legend or marking. Above the triggerguard Cal 7,65 is stamped.
The chamber of the barrel is marked PA or PB? ( Pietro Beretta ? ) and the front strap Z.W. 154 ( maybe the postwar -Zoll Wien- Vienna custom house).
The magazine floorplate is made from stampings.

Fritz



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A standart brown/green holster for Beretta Modells 1934/35 and a late green holster without markings.
The second seems to be an Italian made general purpose holster for all German issued Cal. 7,65 pistols.
Actual it's oversized for the Berettas.
Note the ink inscription I.W.O ( Navy ) on the shell ( Erster Wachoffizier - First officer of the guard ).


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Tropical service issue for the Beretta 1934/35 pistols made of all web material.
Note the unusual belt loop.



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[Dgiz]

Fritz,
Nice pistols and photos. I aquired 4UT Beretta 1935, serial number 615077. No other marking except serial, 4UT and 7.65. This is the latest one I have seen or heard about. According to Lt. Col. Whittington, the last one delivered to the German HQ in Italy was 616000 (per Beretta factory). This delivery was on 17 April 1945, 13 days prior to the surrender of German forces in Italy. I got it from the vets brother. The Vet told the brother he and his friends were looking for Lugers in Italy when they came across these Berettas still in the crates. They were in green leather holsters. The pistols had the finger mag and a flat base mag in the holster mag pouch. I acquired the rig complete, just as he found it...very neat.
Thanks for posting your Beretta photos. Dean

 

[Pancho]

Fritz,
Is there some book or other source that has a listing of the various VoPo markings?

 

[bohemian]

The first book that comes to mind is the book by Dieter Marschall, titled "Handguns of the Armed Organizations of the Soviet Occupation Zone and German Democratic Republic" It has a little bit onthe VOPO markings along with the other markings found on their guns. It is a realitivly new book (2003) translated into English from a German language book.

 

[Jan]

Mine Beretta 1935 has SN 586602. 4UT acceptance, grey Italian leather holster without any acceptance.

 

[Fritz]

Hallo Pancho,

here they are ,

Fritz

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[Franchi]

Fritz, Two unusually marked Beretta's. Pistol # 595715 was probably sold to the German Army Jan 31, 1945 as I have one recorded (#5946xx) sold on this date to the Germans.
The marking on the barrel (PA PB) on pistol #599269 is a stylized "FNA" logo for Fabbrica Nazionale d'Armi, Brescia Italy a subcontractor for the barrels.
The (4UT) is an Italian quality control marking (4th Ufficio Tecnico).

Dean, What type of holster came with your Beretta? The green German break-a-way type or the green Italian style? I have two reported serials later than your 615077, #615529 and 616170 (I own this pistol) a letter to Beretta on mine states "Sold 1946, unable to find purchaser". Mine is also very rough like Fritz's has double stamped serial, blank slide, FNA barrel, and the (4UT) inspection marking on the left.
David Franchi

 

[Dgiz]

Franchi,
Hi, my serial 615077 came in the green Italian type holster. Your late one was sold to unknown buyer in 1946? That is interesting. I read in Jan's book that the 4UT was a quality control stamp recognized by the German army. Did that Italian unit remain in place after the surrender? Maybe your frame was left over and assembled after the war. I wonder if it was sold to a soldier as a souvenir? Maybe to police or security forces....
Dean

 

[Franchi]

Hi Dean, It is my opinion (reasons to follow) the (4UT) is an Italian inspection marking not a "unique" German approved marking as stated by Jan Still and Robert Whittington.
The (4UT) is seen on Carcano rifles dated as early as 1941, long before the Germans were in Italy. It is also seen on other Italian items. The (4UT) was always used by the Italians who kept using it during the German occupation. In Whittington's book, a former employee of Beretta states " One SS Company guarded the factory from Oct 1943 thru April 1945" So the Germans guarded the factory they didn't take it over. I believe the (4UT) was used by the Italian inspectors and now and then the pistols were re-inspected by the German inspectors for quality control who then marked the inspected pistol with their WaA162. If the (4UT) was German why use the WaA162? If the pistols were all German quality control inspected why not use the WaA162 on all of them? Also letters from Beretta on various pistols show the pistols being "sold" to the German Army etc. in 1943, 44, & 45. If the factory was under "total" German control why would they buy the pistols?
There are late war Carcano rifles with the (4UT) marking but none are reported with WaA162 markings as these were not for German Army use and were not inspected by the Germans, why use the (4UT) on Carcanos if it is a "German period" quality control marking?

I believe my Beretta pistol 616170 was made before the end of WWII for the Germans or Italian RSI but wasn't sold to them as the war ended. Of course it could have been assembled after the war from "parts". I don't know why Beretta would know it was sold in 1946 but not who bought it. Their records seem pretty complete. Mine could have been "liberated" from the factory, how else would it get to the U.S.? Beretta my have just said it was sold as they didn't know what happened to it.
David Franchi

 

[Pancho]

Here are two RSI M1935's, one with the 4/UT, one with the E/WaA162.
The 4/UT has a two footnotes re. the marking, one attributing to Menchini, the other to Still, with page #s.

4/UT:

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E/WaA162:

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[Jan C Still]

Franchi "It is my opinion (reasons to follow) the (4UT) is an Italian inspection marking not a "unique" German approved marking as stated by Jan Still and Robert WhittingtonIt is my opinion (reasons to follow) the (4UT) is an Italian inspection marking not a "unique" German approved marking as stated by Jan Still and Robert Whittington"

This is verified in Menchini page 326 :"Weapons of that time, even the ones produced by the Germans, bore the punch mark 4UT(Quarto.....-4th Technical Control Unit) impressed prior to despatch to purchasers."
Jan

 

[Dgiz]

I hope I wasn't confusing. I agree that the 4UT was an Italian stamp and the Germans accepted that mark most of the time. Kind of like the Spanish pistols. The Germans accepted the Spanish stamps...but also applied the WaA to some pistols.
David you are probably right about the pistol being assembled prior to the end of the war and then "collected" by a GI. Beretta probably did an inventory in 1946 and any pistols missing were logged as sold to unknown party!
Dean