bicycle holster bnz
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Msv, This is a very interesting holster. One I have never before seen. I will copy it and insert it in my holster references.
I wonder if you would be kind enough to post a photo of the rear and with the flap open? Many thanks for showing it..Jerry Burney
I wonder if you would be kind enough to post a photo of the rear and with the flap open? Many thanks for showing it..Jerry Burney
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MSV, Thank you very much. I will look for your posting and if you prefer you may send it to me directly. What a great find! Not that it is any business of mine but I like to keep a record if possible of prices paid. Would you share that information? Thanks, Jerry Burney
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Msv, The holster is interesting enough for me....Please do not forget me when you get hold of it! Thanks, Jerry Burney
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Alex, my German friend [and recognized expert] states:
Those are tool pouches - not holsters.I have to admit that it looks similar to a Radom Puch. At least some featuers. It might have been made from a radom holster---Though it is a tool pouch not a holster !
Orv
Those are tool pouches - not holsters.I have to admit that it looks similar to a Radom Puch. At least some featuers. It might have been made from a radom holster---Though it is a tool pouch not a holster !
Orv
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Orv, Are you joking? While I am not an expert, I have to believe a bicycle tool pouch would be much simpler to make. This holster has a magazine pouch on the front and what would that be for? I question this fellow Alex and would wonder if he has any documentation or articles concerning this he might be willing to provide. Let me know....Jerry Burney
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Giving this a little more thought, I have to believe the placement of the holster on the bicycle is to bring the pistol to bear easily either while riding or dismounting. It is placed up front and available to a right handed shooter.
If it were simply a tool pouch it would be placed where most bicycle tool pouches are placed, behind the seat.
I cannot believe a Military entity would waste a perfectly serviceable holster, even going to considerable trouble to modify it for carry on a bicycle when a simple tool pouch common to all bicyclists could be so easily made and fitted out of the way behind the seat.
A holster is a very poor tool pouch. Many items would fall to the bottom and be hard to retrieve.
Orv, I am still interested to know who your expert is and if there is anything to back up his assertion. I must admit to being wrong about my carefully studied assumptions in the past and will humbly submit a sincere apology on this one should it come to that but I think the fellow is absolutely wrong. It just dosen't make any logical sense. Lets nail this one down for sure OK? Let me know...Jerry Burney
If it were simply a tool pouch it would be placed where most bicycle tool pouches are placed, behind the seat.
I cannot believe a Military entity would waste a perfectly serviceable holster, even going to considerable trouble to modify it for carry on a bicycle when a simple tool pouch common to all bicyclists could be so easily made and fitted out of the way behind the seat.
A holster is a very poor tool pouch. Many items would fall to the bottom and be hard to retrieve.
Orv, I am still interested to know who your expert is and if there is anything to back up his assertion. I must admit to being wrong about my carefully studied assumptions in the past and will humbly submit a sincere apology on this one should it come to that but I think the fellow is absolutely wrong. It just dosen't make any logical sense. Lets nail this one down for sure OK? Let me know...Jerry Burney
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His name is Alexander Krutzek...and I will ask him for more info.
Orv
Orv
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Orv, Thanks for the name...I am hoping this fellow can shed a little more light on this interesting subject! I can't wait to hear it. Jerry Burney
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Alex sticks by his reply:
"It does not make sense putting a sidearm (pistol) on a bike. Maybe a Panzerfaust or a rifle ...
After WW2 a lot of military equipment was converted to commercial items ! Holsters were converted into purses, shoes, leather straps, tool pouches for bikes ...
I have a friend close by in Offenbach (one of the leather capitals of Germany).They had a leather factory in WW2 - - -after the War they bought all types of holsters and converted them into anything that could be of use.
I have seen quite a lot bikes with a similar pouch in the same location ! It was always a tool pouch !
That's what some old people stated too, that I asked them about the pouch.
I have checked and added some photos from old bicycle catalogs !
You will find a lot of pictures on German internet sites and they are available at flea markets from time to time.
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Orv
Orvel L. Reichert
P O Box 67
Vader WA 98593-0067
360-245-3492
360-245-3702 Fax
360-520-6520 Cel
[email protected]
quote........ If we all worked on the assumption that what is accepted as true is really true, there would be little hope of advance. - Orville Wright
"It does not make sense putting a sidearm (pistol) on a bike. Maybe a Panzerfaust or a rifle ...
After WW2 a lot of military equipment was converted to commercial items ! Holsters were converted into purses, shoes, leather straps, tool pouches for bikes ...
I have a friend close by in Offenbach (one of the leather capitals of Germany).They had a leather factory in WW2 - - -after the War they bought all types of holsters and converted them into anything that could be of use.
I have seen quite a lot bikes with a similar pouch in the same location ! It was always a tool pouch !
That's what some old people stated too, that I asked them about the pouch.
I have checked and added some photos from old bicycle catalogs !
You will find a lot of pictures on German internet sites and they are available at flea markets from time to time.
Download Attachment:
Bike1.jpg86.93KB
Download Attachment:
Bike2.jpg159.13KB
Download Attachment:
Bike3.jpg118.52KB
Orv
Orvel L. Reichert
P O Box 67
Vader WA 98593-0067
360-245-3492
360-245-3702 Fax
360-520-6520 Cel
[email protected]
quote........ If we all worked on the assumption that what is accepted as true is really true, there would be little hope of advance. - Orville Wright
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Orv, Well, I always defer to the troops on the ground and Alex seems to have a sound argument. Since he is in Germany and seems to have first hand knowledge of the subject It must be so. Sort of deflates my baloon. I had a romantic notion but it was wrong. Thanks for running this one down my Friend, Jerry Burney
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If we can be civil, there can be a lot more learning. Please refrain from calling or stating someone else's opinion is totally wrong.
Ed Tinker
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Ed Tinker
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Ed, How are you? Thanks for visiting me in hospital...I am actually able to walk now without aids of any kind, just a little gimpy! A cane helps but I am on my way to a full recovery.
If you get a chance we would dearly love to have you take a drive down and visit Ellie and I. It sure is beautiful here this Spring....
To address the subject at hand, and a very interesting one it has been, I have to argue the point that it is either rude or objectionable at all to declare one's opinion that another is wrong.
I have looked through my past posts on this thread and I have declared Alex to be wrong in a respectful manner. It has been subsequently proven that, indeed it was I who am wrong, as I believe Alex to be correct in his opinion.
However, to declare that another is wrong is legitimate in the extreme. How else are we to communicate our thoughts and opinions about a subject if we declare certain politically incorrect words like "wrong" off limits?
Should I couch it in terms like, I think you might possibly be mistaken?Certainly a little more polite and Gentlemanly but somewhat lengthy. How many words are we going to exclude and where is the list to refer to to be correct?
I try at all times to be polite, although at times I can be either incredulous or humorous and that can possibly lead people to think I am not that polite. But, there are times where it is best to state ones opinion and not hold back if that is what you know to be true.
Sometimes, disagreement is what makes this board interesting and I agree it must be kept civil.
I appreciate your warning and I am sure it is not meant to be absolute, rather a suggestion to remain calm....Let me know if you disagree to any great length. Warmly, Jerry Burney
If you get a chance we would dearly love to have you take a drive down and visit Ellie and I. It sure is beautiful here this Spring....
To address the subject at hand, and a very interesting one it has been, I have to argue the point that it is either rude or objectionable at all to declare one's opinion that another is wrong.
I have looked through my past posts on this thread and I have declared Alex to be wrong in a respectful manner. It has been subsequently proven that, indeed it was I who am wrong, as I believe Alex to be correct in his opinion.
However, to declare that another is wrong is legitimate in the extreme. How else are we to communicate our thoughts and opinions about a subject if we declare certain politically incorrect words like "wrong" off limits?
Should I couch it in terms like, I think you might possibly be mistaken?Certainly a little more polite and Gentlemanly but somewhat lengthy. How many words are we going to exclude and where is the list to refer to to be correct?
I try at all times to be polite, although at times I can be either incredulous or humorous and that can possibly lead people to think I am not that polite. But, there are times where it is best to state ones opinion and not hold back if that is what you know to be true.
Sometimes, disagreement is what makes this board interesting and I agree it must be kept civil.
I appreciate your warning and I am sure it is not meant to be absolute, rather a suggestion to remain calm....Let me know if you disagree to any great length. Warmly, Jerry Burney
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I have found one other titilating piece of information on this volitile subject. On page 14 of "The Dutch Luger" Bas J. Martens & Guus de Vries There is a fascinating photo of Dutch bicycle troops. On the second bicycle back, there is a distinct holster or (tool pouch) attached to the cross bar just where all of the others above are shown. Now, There are all sorts of other pouches attached to these bicycles and one could only guess what they might be for but they are placed behind the seat where one would expect to see tool or equiptment pouches. The second bicycle back is the only one that appears to have a holster attached.
Is there anyone out there who might have some period Military photo's of bicycle troops or know of any other source for them than these Dutch troops? This would be the only way to positively identify these as being used for holsters rather than tool pouches.
Alex says, "It does not make sense putting a sidearm (pistol) on a bike. Maybe a Panzerfaust or a rifle .
I have to argue this point at least. It makes as much sense to carry a pistol on a bicycle as it does to carry it on your belt, does it not? Why would the use of a bicycle preclude the pistol method of self defense more so or less than walking?
Alex says, After WW2 a lot of military equipment was converted to commercial items ! Holsters were converted into purses, shoes, leather straps, tool pouches for bikes ...I agree that this was the case. That's why there are few surviving Luger Lanyards. The round leather strap they were made of was very much like sewing machine belts and I surmise that many of these were salvaged for this more mundane and necessary reason.
Alex says, I have checked and added some photos from old bicycle catalogs ! And I have to agree, this is strong evidence. Only of what? That perhaps the civilian market followed the military in wanting to carry a pistol on their bicycle! In these trying times, surely there were reasons to be armed when traveling. Dogs running rampent perhaps, robbers, who knows?
While for the most part I have to agree that there is not much hard evidence that bicycle troops did carry pistols on bicycles, there is at least some, from the Dutch photo, that they may have too.....Still, an active and interesting subject that I hope some more light may be shed.
Again, if anyone has any photo's, here or from our European members, please let us know. Thanks, Jerry Burney
Is there anyone out there who might have some period Military photo's of bicycle troops or know of any other source for them than these Dutch troops? This would be the only way to positively identify these as being used for holsters rather than tool pouches.
Alex says, "It does not make sense putting a sidearm (pistol) on a bike. Maybe a Panzerfaust or a rifle .
I have to argue this point at least. It makes as much sense to carry a pistol on a bicycle as it does to carry it on your belt, does it not? Why would the use of a bicycle preclude the pistol method of self defense more so or less than walking?
Alex says, After WW2 a lot of military equipment was converted to commercial items ! Holsters were converted into purses, shoes, leather straps, tool pouches for bikes ...I agree that this was the case. That's why there are few surviving Luger Lanyards. The round leather strap they were made of was very much like sewing machine belts and I surmise that many of these were salvaged for this more mundane and necessary reason.
Alex says, I have checked and added some photos from old bicycle catalogs ! And I have to agree, this is strong evidence. Only of what? That perhaps the civilian market followed the military in wanting to carry a pistol on their bicycle! In these trying times, surely there were reasons to be armed when traveling. Dogs running rampent perhaps, robbers, who knows?
While for the most part I have to agree that there is not much hard evidence that bicycle troops did carry pistols on bicycles, there is at least some, from the Dutch photo, that they may have too.....Still, an active and interesting subject that I hope some more light may be shed.
Again, if anyone has any photo's, here or from our European members, please let us know. Thanks, Jerry Burney
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