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BLACK AND BROWN PLASTIC GRIPS ON 1940 DATED LUGERS
There is some controversy concerning the issue of 1940-42 code and 1940 Army Banner Lugers with black and brown plastic grips. Some of the controversy has become heated with Luger books by reliable authors being mis-quoted and positions being overstated (much like a political debate). To help fellow collectors interested in these Lugers; I will try to replace the hype “just a wild *** guess, pure speculation, assumptions, or hear-say with no actual facts” with some facts, history, and common sense.
(Note: Prior to publication Third Reich Lugers (1988) underwent intensive review by leading collectors from Britain, Canada, Germany, and the Unites States, who helped write some sections of the book. Since publication it has continued to undergo review. The information contained within this book is very reliable with the exception of the updates that I have made on this site and in presentations to the National Automatic Pistol Collector Associations Conventions.)
(Note: observations of known examples (particularly 15-20 + years ago) reported or shown in Luger books by reliable authors is hard information. The 1940-42 with black plastic grips (page 71), the 41-42 with black plastic grips (page 77-78, and the 1940 dated Army Banner Luger with brown plastic grips(page 142) (all shown in Third Reich Lugers) are hard factual information. These early observations are very informative and are certainly not “just a wild *** guess, pure speculation, assumptions, or hear-say with no actual facts”. If correct-factual data is the goal such early published information cannot be ignored).
Previous Studies of Luger Black Plastic Grips
Randall Gibsom in his book “The Krieghoff Parabellum”, published in 1980, conducted the most in depth study of Luger grips to date. On page 43 he reports "This coarse checkered black grip is encountered on a very few 1939 dated Mauser Lugers, both banners and the Coded Militaries. They are found intermittently in those pistols manufactured by Mauser in 1940." Gibson also reports that the plastic grips found on 1940 Mauser Lugers are identical to those on 1940 Krieghoff Lugers. Gibsons book is unrivaled as to the details on Krieghoff Lugers and plastic/bakelite Luger grips.
I have been collecting Lugers for over 30 years and have never observed original black or brown plastic grips on reworked Imperial Lugers, Weimar Era Lugers or on a K, G. 1936,1937, 1938, or 1939 S/42 code Luger. Nor have collectors reported such.
When the research for Third Reich Lugers was accomplished prior to 1988, I had observed a few 1940 42, with proper black plastic grips (Third Reich Lugers page 65, 71, 77) and a few 1940 42 and 1940 Army Banners with proper Krieghoff style brown plastic grips (Third Reich Lugers page 140 and 142)). Also a few late 1939 dated Lugers were reported with black plastic grips (Gibsom 1980, page 43). Advanced collectors reported similar findings. The observations of Still and Gibson in the 1970's and 1980's of 1940 dated Lugers with brown or black plastic grips are documented in their publications Third Reich Lugers and The Krieghoff Parabellum. 1940-42 code or 1940 Army Banner Lugers with black or brown plastic grips documented by research prior to 1986 and 1980 (and published) is hard evidence that such Lugers exist.
Download Attachment:
BLACKANDBROWN1.jpg
39.49KB
Figure 1. The Army Banner (sn1220x) shown on page 142 of Third Reich Lugers has brown plastic grips and has been owned by me for almost 20 years. A similar brown gripped Army Banner Luger was reported in Canada and a brown gripped 1940 42 was examined in Seattle in 1973. Advanced collectors reported similar findings. These 1940 42 and 1940 Army Banner Lugers with brown plastic grips are rare but credible variations. Because replica/fake black or brown plastic grips are currently on the market, great care, diligence and common sense must be used in the purchase of such Lugers.
Download Attachment: BLACKANDBROWN2.jpg
63.09KB
Figure 2. 1940 Army Banner, sn 1220x. Grip details..
Download Attachment: BLACKANDBROWN3.jpg
40.69KB
Figure 3. 1940 Army Banner, sn 1220x. Inside of grips. These are identical to Krieghoff grips issued on 1936-1938 Luftwaffe contract Lugers.
Were Black or Brown Plastic Grips Used as replacement Grips?
If the black/brown plastic grips were in fact used as replacements on older guns near the end of WW-II, one would expect to find them on K, G, 1936, 1937, 1938, or 1939 S/42 code Lugers and also on the various Weimar Lugers and Imperial reworks. However, that just is not the case. To the best of my knowledge, the black/brown plastic grips are all or almost all confined to a very few late 1939 dated Lugers, and on 1940, 41 and 42 dates.
On page 65 Third Reich Lugers it is stated that: “These black plastic grips were also used as replacements and are sometimes found on Lugers produced prior to mid 1939"
On page 14 Axis Pistols it is stated that: “these bakelite grips and plastic bottom magazines were also used as armory replacements for damaged grips and magazines until the end of World War II and sometimes are found on Mauser P08's dated earlier than 1940.” Based on observations of many- many German World War II military Lugers, since these books were published (in 1986 and 1988) I have come to doubt the use of black or brown plastic grips as replacements, as they simply do not show up on earlier made Lugers that are in well used condition and do show up on excellent to mint condition 1940-42, 1940 Army Banner, and 41-42 dated militay Lugers. Apparently the brown and black plastic grips were installed at manufacture. The above statements in Third Reich Lugers and Axis Pistols should be modified to reflect that the plastic grips were most likely installed at manufacture.
1939 Directive On Black Plastic Grips.
Third Reich Lugers page 65 “According to an Army directive wood grips could be replaced by black plastic grips when wood grips were not available.” (This directive is dated in 1939 and was found in German military archives by Joachim Gortz who helped author parts of Third Reich Lugers, page 12.) Also stated in Third Reich Lugers: “Black plastic grips start appearing in late 1939 and are found on about 2% of military code Lugers dated 1940 and 20% of those produced in 1941 and 1942.”
Other Comments on Black or Brown Luger Grips
Don Hallock (a very knowledgeable long time Mauser Luger collector) in his 4/19/01 dated News Letter page 12 states:
“During 1940-42 production the Mauser sub-contractor making the grips for the Lugers apparently ran short of logs and was slow to supply Mauser with grips, To compensate for this shortage, Mauser purchased some brown plastic grips that were comparable to the grips used on the early 1940 Krieghoff Lugers. I would suggest that less than 2% of the total 1940-42 code Luger production had brown plastic grips. Like the black plastic grips, these brown plastic grips were not numbered. A pistol with these brown plastic grips would certainly enhance any Luger collection. Yes “bakelite” is a better word than plastic. The black plastic grips did not appear until approximately the- q- block of the 41 byf pistols.”
While Don agrees concerning the 1940 brown plastic/bakelite grips, he disagrees concerning the 1940 black plastic grips.
Problems Last 15 Years
Recently one collector reported that “There are probably at least a 100 times more brown plastic grips on Lugers today than there were in 1940". The probability of switching brown grips from expensive rare Krieghoff Lugers to the more common 1940 42 Lugers is unprofitable and not likely. If these hundreds of 1940 42 Lugers with brown plastic grips exist, their brown grips must be have been recently replicated/faked.
(This is similar to the common practice of adding two matching magazines to a Luger to greatly increase its price. The numbers of Lugers with two matching magazines has also increased greatly over the last 15 years.)
Near perfect replicas of Mauser and Kieghoff style black and brown grips are being manufactured. There is little question that the black plastic grips are being placed on originally wood gripped byf 41 and 42 dated Lugers to create black widows and a high price. I have not seen the claimed hundreds of brown gripped 1940 42 lugers on the market and doubt the above claim. However, I would be the first to admit the possible difficulties of determining if a Luger has original or fake grips or if they have been switched. This points out the importance of the early research that was mostly accomplished prior to the large scale replicating and switching of grips. It always pays for a collector to know the source of purchase and the correct details of the plastic grips.
If you are in the market for a Luger with original plastic grips, I would recommend reading the other posts covering plastic Luger grips. They show detailed photographs and some present a different view than I. Remember that 1939-42, 1940-42, 1940 Banner Army, 41-42, and early byf 41 lugers are rarely found with plastic grips.
Download Attachment: BLACKANDBROWN4.jpg
77.8KB
Figure 4. A 1940 42 code with black plastic grips reported from Canada by Peter Dunster (Lugercollector) is shown above. In my opinion, Canada has escaped Waffenfabrik USA, and the Lugers that are found there are likely to be original. If I were in the market for a 1940 42 code I would not hesitate to buy this Luger from Canada, once I had verified the grips.
Download Attachment: BLACKANDBROWN5.jpg
37.92KB
Figure 5. byf 42, sn135c, with black plastic “black widow” grips. In spite of the problem with replica/fake grips, such Lugers can be purchased with a reasonable amount of confidence. This Luger was purchased from a fellow collector. A detailed check of the grips was made prior to purchase.
Download Attachment: BLACKANDBROWN6.jpg
63.23KB
Figure 6. byf 42, sn135c, details of grips.
Download Attachment: BLACKANDBROWN7.jpg
38.17KB
Figure 7. byf 42, sn135c, inside of grips. Some deviations from this exact configuration have been noted.. Most are shown in the other posts covering black plastic grips.
(Note: Other collectors have more expertise and experience in the area of the plastic gripped Mauser Lugers than I. They are more able than I at determining fakes. Please update, correct, or criticize this article as you see fit.)
Jan
There is some controversy concerning the issue of 1940-42 code and 1940 Army Banner Lugers with black and brown plastic grips. Some of the controversy has become heated with Luger books by reliable authors being mis-quoted and positions being overstated (much like a political debate). To help fellow collectors interested in these Lugers; I will try to replace the hype “just a wild *** guess, pure speculation, assumptions, or hear-say with no actual facts” with some facts, history, and common sense.
(Note: Prior to publication Third Reich Lugers (1988) underwent intensive review by leading collectors from Britain, Canada, Germany, and the Unites States, who helped write some sections of the book. Since publication it has continued to undergo review. The information contained within this book is very reliable with the exception of the updates that I have made on this site and in presentations to the National Automatic Pistol Collector Associations Conventions.)
(Note: observations of known examples (particularly 15-20 + years ago) reported or shown in Luger books by reliable authors is hard information. The 1940-42 with black plastic grips (page 71), the 41-42 with black plastic grips (page 77-78, and the 1940 dated Army Banner Luger with brown plastic grips(page 142) (all shown in Third Reich Lugers) are hard factual information. These early observations are very informative and are certainly not “just a wild *** guess, pure speculation, assumptions, or hear-say with no actual facts”. If correct-factual data is the goal such early published information cannot be ignored).
Previous Studies of Luger Black Plastic Grips
Randall Gibsom in his book “The Krieghoff Parabellum”, published in 1980, conducted the most in depth study of Luger grips to date. On page 43 he reports "This coarse checkered black grip is encountered on a very few 1939 dated Mauser Lugers, both banners and the Coded Militaries. They are found intermittently in those pistols manufactured by Mauser in 1940." Gibson also reports that the plastic grips found on 1940 Mauser Lugers are identical to those on 1940 Krieghoff Lugers. Gibsons book is unrivaled as to the details on Krieghoff Lugers and plastic/bakelite Luger grips.
I have been collecting Lugers for over 30 years and have never observed original black or brown plastic grips on reworked Imperial Lugers, Weimar Era Lugers or on a K, G. 1936,1937, 1938, or 1939 S/42 code Luger. Nor have collectors reported such.
When the research for Third Reich Lugers was accomplished prior to 1988, I had observed a few 1940 42, with proper black plastic grips (Third Reich Lugers page 65, 71, 77) and a few 1940 42 and 1940 Army Banners with proper Krieghoff style brown plastic grips (Third Reich Lugers page 140 and 142)). Also a few late 1939 dated Lugers were reported with black plastic grips (Gibsom 1980, page 43). Advanced collectors reported similar findings. The observations of Still and Gibson in the 1970's and 1980's of 1940 dated Lugers with brown or black plastic grips are documented in their publications Third Reich Lugers and The Krieghoff Parabellum. 1940-42 code or 1940 Army Banner Lugers with black or brown plastic grips documented by research prior to 1986 and 1980 (and published) is hard evidence that such Lugers exist.
Download Attachment:
BLACKANDBROWN1.jpg39.49KB
Figure 1. The Army Banner (sn1220x) shown on page 142 of Third Reich Lugers has brown plastic grips and has been owned by me for almost 20 years. A similar brown gripped Army Banner Luger was reported in Canada and a brown gripped 1940 42 was examined in Seattle in 1973. Advanced collectors reported similar findings. These 1940 42 and 1940 Army Banner Lugers with brown plastic grips are rare but credible variations. Because replica/fake black or brown plastic grips are currently on the market, great care, diligence and common sense must be used in the purchase of such Lugers.
Download Attachment:
BLACKANDBROWN2.jpg63.09KB
Figure 2. 1940 Army Banner, sn 1220x. Grip details..
Download Attachment:
BLACKANDBROWN3.jpg40.69KB
Figure 3. 1940 Army Banner, sn 1220x. Inside of grips. These are identical to Krieghoff grips issued on 1936-1938 Luftwaffe contract Lugers.
Were Black or Brown Plastic Grips Used as replacement Grips?
If the black/brown plastic grips were in fact used as replacements on older guns near the end of WW-II, one would expect to find them on K, G, 1936, 1937, 1938, or 1939 S/42 code Lugers and also on the various Weimar Lugers and Imperial reworks. However, that just is not the case. To the best of my knowledge, the black/brown plastic grips are all or almost all confined to a very few late 1939 dated Lugers, and on 1940, 41 and 42 dates.
On page 65 Third Reich Lugers it is stated that: “These black plastic grips were also used as replacements and are sometimes found on Lugers produced prior to mid 1939"
On page 14 Axis Pistols it is stated that: “these bakelite grips and plastic bottom magazines were also used as armory replacements for damaged grips and magazines until the end of World War II and sometimes are found on Mauser P08's dated earlier than 1940.” Based on observations of many- many German World War II military Lugers, since these books were published (in 1986 and 1988) I have come to doubt the use of black or brown plastic grips as replacements, as they simply do not show up on earlier made Lugers that are in well used condition and do show up on excellent to mint condition 1940-42, 1940 Army Banner, and 41-42 dated militay Lugers. Apparently the brown and black plastic grips were installed at manufacture. The above statements in Third Reich Lugers and Axis Pistols should be modified to reflect that the plastic grips were most likely installed at manufacture.
1939 Directive On Black Plastic Grips.
Third Reich Lugers page 65 “According to an Army directive wood grips could be replaced by black plastic grips when wood grips were not available.” (This directive is dated in 1939 and was found in German military archives by Joachim Gortz who helped author parts of Third Reich Lugers, page 12.) Also stated in Third Reich Lugers: “Black plastic grips start appearing in late 1939 and are found on about 2% of military code Lugers dated 1940 and 20% of those produced in 1941 and 1942.”
Other Comments on Black or Brown Luger Grips
Don Hallock (a very knowledgeable long time Mauser Luger collector) in his 4/19/01 dated News Letter page 12 states:
“During 1940-42 production the Mauser sub-contractor making the grips for the Lugers apparently ran short of logs and was slow to supply Mauser with grips, To compensate for this shortage, Mauser purchased some brown plastic grips that were comparable to the grips used on the early 1940 Krieghoff Lugers. I would suggest that less than 2% of the total 1940-42 code Luger production had brown plastic grips. Like the black plastic grips, these brown plastic grips were not numbered. A pistol with these brown plastic grips would certainly enhance any Luger collection. Yes “bakelite” is a better word than plastic. The black plastic grips did not appear until approximately the- q- block of the 41 byf pistols.”
While Don agrees concerning the 1940 brown plastic/bakelite grips, he disagrees concerning the 1940 black plastic grips.
Problems Last 15 Years
Recently one collector reported that “There are probably at least a 100 times more brown plastic grips on Lugers today than there were in 1940". The probability of switching brown grips from expensive rare Krieghoff Lugers to the more common 1940 42 Lugers is unprofitable and not likely. If these hundreds of 1940 42 Lugers with brown plastic grips exist, their brown grips must be have been recently replicated/faked.
(This is similar to the common practice of adding two matching magazines to a Luger to greatly increase its price. The numbers of Lugers with two matching magazines has also increased greatly over the last 15 years.)
Near perfect replicas of Mauser and Kieghoff style black and brown grips are being manufactured. There is little question that the black plastic grips are being placed on originally wood gripped byf 41 and 42 dated Lugers to create black widows and a high price. I have not seen the claimed hundreds of brown gripped 1940 42 lugers on the market and doubt the above claim. However, I would be the first to admit the possible difficulties of determining if a Luger has original or fake grips or if they have been switched. This points out the importance of the early research that was mostly accomplished prior to the large scale replicating and switching of grips. It always pays for a collector to know the source of purchase and the correct details of the plastic grips.
If you are in the market for a Luger with original plastic grips, I would recommend reading the other posts covering plastic Luger grips. They show detailed photographs and some present a different view than I. Remember that 1939-42, 1940-42, 1940 Banner Army, 41-42, and early byf 41 lugers are rarely found with plastic grips.
Download Attachment:
BLACKANDBROWN4.jpg77.8KB
Figure 4. A 1940 42 code with black plastic grips reported from Canada by Peter Dunster (Lugercollector) is shown above. In my opinion, Canada has escaped Waffenfabrik USA, and the Lugers that are found there are likely to be original. If I were in the market for a 1940 42 code I would not hesitate to buy this Luger from Canada, once I had verified the grips.
Download Attachment:
BLACKANDBROWN5.jpg37.92KB
Figure 5. byf 42, sn135c, with black plastic “black widow” grips. In spite of the problem with replica/fake grips, such Lugers can be purchased with a reasonable amount of confidence. This Luger was purchased from a fellow collector. A detailed check of the grips was made prior to purchase.
Download Attachment:
BLACKANDBROWN6.jpg63.23KB
Figure 6. byf 42, sn135c, details of grips.
Download Attachment:
BLACKANDBROWN7.jpg38.17KB
Figure 7. byf 42, sn135c, inside of grips. Some deviations from this exact configuration have been noted.. Most are shown in the other posts covering black plastic grips.
(Note: Other collectors have more expertise and experience in the area of the plastic gripped Mauser Lugers than I. They are more able than I at determining fakes. Please update, correct, or criticize this article as you see fit.)
Jan
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