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Black Widow Grips

16332 Views 48 Replies 16 Participants Last post by  tracy
I was cleaning my byf 41 (48XX v) and upon removing the grips, remembered there were some interesting threads on the subject that were "sticky-d" by Jan including some about fakes, and the identifying marks of the "real" ones. It seemed most guys thought that if you had the pistol in your posession for long enough or it was up in Canada away from the fakers, it would most likely be the real deal.

I took some pics of them which I can't resize small enough to post myself, so if I could send them to someone to post I would appreciate it.

They have ONE of the holes mentioned on the inside, the lower one, and there are casting flashings where the upper hole might have been located in the mold at some point, but both have only ONE hole in them.

I bought this pistol and several others from a collector in 1976 as a Black Widow (he described it on the Bill of Sale in this manner). No one has ever fooled with this as long as I have had it, and I believe the gentleman who owned it had it in his possession for a number of years.

Since I can account for it for over 29 years myself and would imagine him having it for five or more (he got out of pistols and went into stamps. These grips show some wear and a few scratches, so no collector would bother to scratch them up to try to fool anyone 30 years ago, maybe now, but not then I don't think. I wonder if anyone who knows can tell us WHEN the fake grips started to be produced?

Now I read where the real ones have TWO holes in the back and they are threaded so they could use a grip screw to remove them from the mold. Please....what guy in a factory would take the time to thread in a fine threaded grip screw to remove it from the mold? Perhaps if a tool was used to pop them out, it could simply be put in the hole and torqued to the side to remove it from the mold, or if the idea that someone took the time to thread in a tool to remove them, why would they use a SMALL thread size that could break, chip or cross-thread so easily for ONE task only; removing it from the mold? On the other hand, is it a coincidence that the thread size of the tool to remove the grip from the mold (if that is what it is) happens to be the same size as the grip screw is?

Just playing devil's advocate here since some think TWO holes on the back are necessary for it to be "real", and they have to be threaded the same size as the grip screw is. Heck, the holes in mine appear to have been threaded, but have threads in them or have had the threads boogered up at some point and they are a bit smaller than 3/8"....hmm..just about 9mm!

Your thoughts, gentlemen?
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quote:Originally posted by Chuck Lutz

...that's the point of having a great forum to ask questions and to question accepted ideas.

Thank you all for your efforts, that was EXACTLY what I wanted to see in there, as it supports the idea that this pistol could have come from the factory with these grips.
A couple of comments. From years, and I point out YEARS of these collectors collecting, they have not seen grips like you have. The chance of them being real is slim.

I too sometimes go the what-if route, and question the "known" facts, but if many respected collectors tell me that something is probably fake, it probably is. There were over 30 years of what-ifs before you got the gun, so who knows.

I too would want them to be real, but this doesn't make or break your "black widow". Which incidently is a made-up term from America and has no basis in europe or the Mauser factory. It is simply a luger that got bakelite/plastic grips on it instead of wood. Wood grips would be correct also on this same gun.

I think you'll just piss off the guys on the forum Chuck. They have shown you real ones, and they, including Jan
Still, one of THE experts on the forum have told you yours are fake.

Give the experts on this forum the benifit of the doubt and at least acknowledge their years of experience and that in their opinion, yours are not real...

See this quote;
quote:My observations and those reported by fellow collectors (over 30 years) have not included "black widow" grips such as you show (large holes) in your post above as being original.
Sorry you don't like the answer, but if Jan and others say these are not real, they are not real.

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