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I am posting this for: Grahame Smith
From: Grahame Smith
7.63mm Broomhandle, serial number is 289409, with a crown / M on the rear strap in between the serial no. and the slot cutout. The Crown/M is exactly like you show on page 182 on the navy Luger (see my sketch) and (your book on Imperial Lugers).
I have looked in all the books I can find but do not see anything on Navy Brooms! Is much known about the Imperial Navy using C96's ? how many etc.


Download Attachment: NB1.jpg
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Figure 1. Left side Wartime Commercial Broom, serial number 289409, with Navy C/M.


Download Attachment: NB2.jpg
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Figure 2. Wartime Commercial Broom, serial number 289409, with Navy C/M between hammer and stock slot


Download Attachment: DSCN0150.jpg
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Figure 3. Sketch of C/M.

From: Jan C Still
Grahame
What is the source of your Imperial Navy Broom? Do you have any documentation on its past history?
Does it bear an Army acceptance stamp on its right side? Is the hammer marked NS(New Safety) on the back (a feature added in 1915 at about sn 280000).
I do not recall seeing photographs of Brooms being used by the Imperial Navy, nor seeing any documentation on the use of Brooms by the Imperial Navy.
However, brooms could have very well have been used (most likely unmarked). Are there any reports of Imperial Navy stamped Broom holsters, photographs, documentation?
Jan
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Correction to the above.
On page 114 of the Broomhandle Pistol by Erickson and Pate a photo caption says:

"The Imperial German Navy is known to have used the M1896 but no examples other than holsters have been reported. The Naval photo above (showing Navy personnel with a stocked M1896)appears to be from either the Weimar or Early Nazi Era."
Jan
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
From Grahame
Hi Jan , To answer your questions. A/ I got the gun from Simpson's in Galesburg ( no other history known) B/ there is a gothic stamping on the RHS of the receiver..... (hex) it is the same as shown on page 2 of your Imperial Luger Book....German Army Inspection Stamps ...lower left letter. C/ the Hammer has a Large "S" with a smaller "N" across the middle of the "S". D/ the gun is marked Germany" on the top flat of the hex in front of the receiver. E/ the gun also has a small but deep "M" over a faint 6 pointed star the is under the barrel just in front of the receiver. there are letters "A" and "V" under the barrel in the milled flat. oh one last bit of info, the gun was a consignment piece with Simpson's stock code of C4374. It is still being shown on Simpson's web site as sold(no mention of the Crown/M though. Hope this helps. Regds Grahame

Below, Copied by JCS from Simpsons on line list, May 16, 2004.
MAUSER C96, 98% blue, excellent bore, excellent 34 groove walnut grips, Standard Wartime Commercial, 140mm-5.5" barrel, adjustable rear sight graded 50-1000, German definitive pistol proof, German Army Acceptance mark, "GERMANY" on top of chamber, First model to utilize the new safety NS markings on rear of hammer
s/n: 2894xx 7.62 mm C4374 $1950 (Marked Sold)
 

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Hi,

It seems that Graham has a nice and interesting pistol!
I don´t know if this can help, but I found this picture in a Portuguese Book ("Armas Ligeiras de Fogo", Prado Ed., vol. 1, p.08).


Download Attachment: navybroom.jpg
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It looks lika a sailor form the Imperial Navy. His cap tally shows what appears to be "Werft-Division" inscription. As you can see, he is wearing the wooden stock holster (with the leather harness) and the C96 inside.

Hope it helps you.

All the best,

Douglas.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Douglas
This is the same photograph shown on page 114 of the Broomhandle Pistol by Erickson and Pate that they identify as either Weimar or Nazi. The possibility that it might actually be Imperial is interesting.
Thanks
Jan
 

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Jan. I had the oportunity to briefly examine Grahame's pistol at the OGCA show this past weekend. I looked at the proof and noted it was the same size (?)that is normally encountered on the left side of a navel luger,as a receiver proof. I used a ten power loop and it looked OK, but I too was confused, as I had never seen this type of proofing on a Broomhandle before. The Pistol as the Pics show, is an excellent example.Best Dave
 

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I echo Jan's query regarding use of the C96 by the Kaiserlichesmarine: what documentation is there?
Insofar as the photo is concerned, all one can say is that the cap does not display a Hoheitsabzeichen, introduced on such caps in 1935, so the picture presumably dates from before that.
Unfortunately we can't make out the cockade on the cap. If it had a Reichsmarine eagle in the center it would put the picture between 1919 and 1935. If it is the usual r/w/b roundel then it would be pre-1919. We also can't make out the central design of the belt buckle so that is no help, either. The (grey?) overcoat might tell us something but I can't find out from my references how long the WWI style grey coats were worn after the end of the war.
As far as the stamp crown/M is concerned, unfortunately such stamps (in varying degrees of quality) have been offered on the market for a long time....
Insofar as Erickson and Pate are concerned, I recall that they also state somewhere that unit stamps were not applied to Army-procured C96s during WWI - which we know is not the case.
 
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