[holster_collector]

This adds confusion to my understanding of the origins of these pistols. First, I understand they were imported from Bulgaria. However, they might have traveled through Germany and to F Jagd on the way--nothing puzzling there. However, these were refinished in classic eastern bloc style with the "dip blue" and some black paint over the rust spots. The WaA251 stamp does not appear to be on top of the refinish but under it. Otherwise, there would be a disruption of the surrounding finish, wouldn't there? Do the WaA marks appear as though they were applied after the refinish?

 

[holster_collector]

quote:Originally posted by GA_Collector

I have looked at a number of these and the WaA251 stamp appears to be under the blueing. The Waffenant also matches (both WaA251) in number and style with the one on my MAB-D.

This is the first example I have heard of the WaA251 matching across two pistol types. On the recently imported and refinished Star B's the A of WaA is in a different location than the A on other WaA251 pistols I have examined in photographs. Are you stating that the A in the same location on your two pistols?

 

[holster_collector]

quote:Originally posted by garfield

According to Antaris, IMHO, someone who would know, all the Bulgarian contract Star Model Bs were marked as standard commercial pistols, i.e., no Waffenampt acceptance stamps. Why should they? They went from Spain to Bulgaria. According to Antaris, the surplused Bulgarian Star Bs that ended up here were refinished and waffenampts applied in Europe.

Bulgarian contract pistols fall within particular serial number ranges and were delivered in three groups of 5000 pistols each starting in 9/0/43 #'s 225007-225775 & 226101-230331, 2/12/43 #'s 230332-230375 & 231-235782, 3/3/44 #'s 235901-240900.

So, if you buy one of these Star Bs that fall within these serial # parameters, which are stamped WaA251, you may have some difficulty convincing a knowledgeable collector that this stamp is legit.

There is a good reason these could be WaA251 marked. At this point in time, the Germans were in need of guns, having lost a lot of them at Stalingrad and elsewhere. Already they had contracts to buy many of the Star B's and could have redirected the pistols from the Bulgarian order (their "allies", so to speak) to German use. If you look at a map, you will see that the Stars are made in a town NORTH of parts of France. Shipping by water would have been hazardous through the Mediterranean in 1944 and no doubt the pistols would have traveled through France on their way to the eastern front for use by German forces. The WaA251 office was in France, of course, in 1944. There is nothing illogical about the commandeering of the Star B's for German forces because the Bulgarians were clearly subordinate to the German's needs.

However, the WaA251 on the recent imports differs from that which appears in photos I have seen of known original pieces from the German contract ranges. Look at the vertical orientation of the capital letter A.

I can not conclude either way but would like to know if any non-WaA251 Star B's exist from the Bulgarian contract ranges that pre-date the imports and do not have the WaA251 stamp. If a pair of non-WaA251 pistols exist that bracket one of the recent WaA251 imports, I would be even more suspicious of the recent import's legitimacy.

 

[holster_collector]

quote:Originally posted by garfield

quote:Originally posted by dmclain
There is a good reason these could be WaA251 marked. At this point in time, the Germans were in need of guns, having lost a lot of them at Stalingrad and elsewhere. Already they had contracts to buy many of the Star B's and could have redirected the pistols from the Bulgarian order (their "allies", so to speak) to German use. If you look at a map, you will see that the Stars are made in a town NORTH of parts of France. Shipping by water would have been hazardous through the Mediterranean in 1944 and no doubt the pistols would have traveled through France on their way to the eastern front for use by German forces. The WaA251 office was in France, of course, in 1944. There is nothing illogical about the commandeering of the Star B's for German forces because the Bulgarians were clearly subordinate to the German's needs.

Certainly sounds good but none of it is substantiated by documented research. The delivery of the Star Bs from the Star factory to Bulgaria is of record; these facts have been researched and documeted. Unless you have some documented information which supports your theory it serves no useful purpose to speculate on what "could have happened".

Most of this discussion, including the claims of documentation of delivery, involve "speculation" or "theorizing". If I have documentation or references to support a theory, I will cite those sources. However, the suggestion that is serves no useful purpose to offer possible explanations is unwise. I welcome the publication of theories so that you, I and others can critique those theories. If people stop contributing theories because some people don't want to read them, we will turn the forum into a mutual admiration society for the arrogant. That is one of the problems of other collecting societies.

A particular piece of documentation I would like to see posted is a photo of the import WaA side-by-side with a photo of a known 1944 WaA marking. Those I have seen are distinctly different, calling into question the WaA251 of the recent import pistols.