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Canadian pistol and Canadian portable MG

2K views 12 replies 7 participants last post by  alvin 
#1 · (Edited)
In numerous historical Chinese documents, Inglis #1 Browning was referred as "Canadian Pistol", probably due to the grip decal had Canada written in Chinese. The English marking on the pistol,,,, I doubt people could read those text.

Similarly, Long Branch STEN was referred as "Canadian Portable Machine Gun". That was stamped on the magazine well by factory. Some docs simply referred it as "Canadian MG". Initially, that is ambiguous, due to Inglis also made BREN... but context indicated the referred gun being a subgun.

By 1945, the old Broomhadles were still popular, but the favor were fading. Newer generation of Browning and subguns became popular.

"Canadian Guns". Canadian made some great guns.
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#4 ·
The British and Chinese contracts for the Inglis High Power pistol were, of course, active during WW-II after Germany had occupied Belgium and taken over the FN factories near Liege.

The Canadian made Inglis "copy" of the Belgian FN/Browning High Power pistol was reverse engineered from captured or acquired pistols. For that reason, the Inglis version was built in the inch/foot based system, not the metric system like the original FN pistols.

I have a Chinese contract Inglis pistol and stock. My pistol is well used, but still in decent firing condition.
 
#5 ·
Clive Law went through related documents in Toranto. The making of Inglis High Power were actually based on FN official drawing. But Canadian did get six prewar FN samples from Chinese in the preparation stage. Those samples were used to test steel parts hardness, so, a few were destroyed in the test process.

These were very well made military handguns. Not high polished, dull black finish.. but for utilization, and they function extremely well.
 
#6 ·
The Canadians actually had not just the six Chinese samples at their disposal, but also the former FN designer Dieudonné Saive who had originally completed the HP’s design with Browning and had made it to England, where he reproduced the blueprints from notes and memory for the British; there were originally plans, later abandoned, to begin production at RSAF Enfield. A few prototypes were supposedly manufactured. The Canadians also concluded licensing agreements with FN representatives-in-exile, so the Inglis HP was an “official” licensed version of the FN HP.

Many people don’t realized that the Inglis HP is still the standard service sidearm of the Canadian forces and only currently in the process of being replaced.

641371
 
#7 · (Edited)
One interesting point is that MK I still had round locking cam. Even on prewar FN, that was counted as an early feature, and was improved to squared locking cam before WWII.

So, Inglis started from older model, the samples that they got most likely being older model too. Belgian engineers ignored that, at least, no one pointed the critical issue out before production.

The locking cam issue was found again, and was fixed by Belgians again later, on Inglis MK I*.
 
#8 ·
From what I've read, the reason for the earlier Inglis having the round cam, later changed to the square, is because the Inglis High Power was reversed engineered using an early pistol from a contract sale to China by FN. It was the Chinese we have to thank for the Inglis High Power. Their desire to buy the HP was, in large part, the driving force behind the FN and Canadian effort to figure out how to manufacture the HP. An FN made pre-War Chinese contract HP was supplied to Inglis by the Chinese so Inglis could begin reverse engineering it. China asked FN if they would authorize Canada to manufacture 200,000 pistols for the Chinese Army. Then the bureaucracy took hold. FN wanted to cover their butts, the Canadian gov't wanted to cover their butts, and the British were being butts.

The British were slow walking the High Power aid to Canada. They wanted to manufacture the HP themselves, as well as keep a hold of the FN engineers, and kept putting the Inglis folks off. The Canadian gov't wasn't helping the situation. The Belgian engineers and drawings weren't available to to the Canadians until after they had completely reverse engineered the HP, and were working on the tooling to begin production.

How the Inglis High Power came to be is an interesting and convoluted story. Blake Stevens has a pretty complete history, including letters from the various players, in his book The Browning High Power Automatic Pistol. (I hope it's ok to mention that here. If not, take it down or let me know and I will.)
 
#9 ·
Regarding Browning pistol, there was a story told by Chiang Weiguo (Chiang Kaiskek's younger son).

It was in 1940s, he boarded on a train. At that time, he served as an army major. On the train, he found there was a general sitting on his bed. Seeing him, the general told him "I am too old to climb, let's exchange our beds" and pointed the upper bed. Chiang agreed and tried to climb up there.

While he was climbing, the general noticed Chiang had a shiny silver Colt pocket pistol on his belt. "Wait, wait.. what you have here.."

After handling that Colt in hands, the general obviously loved it. He took out his pistol, "This, a large caliber Browning, is very powerful. This will be much useful to you. Let's trade." And, without agreement, he already put the Colt into his pocket, and handed his Browning over to Chiang. It is unclear what type of Browning it was, not mentioned,,,most likely, it was an Inglis.

After arriving destination, finally, Chiang managed to get his Colt back, and lamented decades later "you see, that was a typical type of officer served in our army at that time".
 
#13 ·
The first time that I saw real samples of Inglis was probably in 1980 (?), in a big museum. There were many Inglis and 1911 pistols displayed on the floor with a thick glass cover over the area to prevent theft. I was very impressed.

Many years later, a retired collector transferred an excellent #2 Inglis to me. That was the first time that I could look and play this type in hands. It came from the Great Britian, there was a BNP stamp on it, along with canvas holster, etc. At that time, Inglis was really cheap,, only a few hundred dollars for that nice condition. My personality decided I am not a long holder, years ago, I transferred it to another collector. This one:
https://www.gunsamerica.com/977620845/Inglis-9mm-Browning-Hi-Power-Pistol-A-British-Rig.htm

After that, a few #1 and #2 Inglis of various condition went through my hands. Since I like this type so much, I keep a #1 to today.
 
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