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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,

I am working on purchasing another Suhl revolver. It is an M83 with checkered grips. There is no military acceptance, only C/U proofs. SN is in the 1000 range. I am trying to discuss whether antique or not with the seller. While I am fairly certain the Suhl firms stopped producing these in 1896, is that confirmed even for commercial models?
 

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I am trying to discuss whether antique or not with the seller. I ain't no bunkhouse lawyer but I believe the ATF goes by the model date? 1883. Besides it's a black powder.
 

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The ATF uses the year 1898 as the cutoff. Anything made from 1899 forward is considered a modern firearm having to go to an FFL if traveling interstate...Bill
 

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The governing law in this case is 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44 § 921


(16) The term ‘‘antique firearm’’ means—
(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica—
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term ‘‘antique firearm’’ shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted in to a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel,bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.


Bill is correct about the date.

Model has nothing to do with it, just when it was manufactured.

Black powder only matters if is is also a muzzle-loader.
 

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It is made for 10.6mm black powder rounds, no longer manufactured in USA and not readily available. It should be an Antique by that definition.
 

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It is made for 10.6mm black powder rounds, no longer manufactured in USA and not readily available. It should be an Antique by that definition.
Read it again

(16) The term ‘‘antique firearm’’ means—
(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898;

or

(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica—
...(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
...(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels ...of commercial trade;

or

(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term ‘‘antique firearm’’ shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted in to a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel,bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.


The bit about no longer manufactured or readily available ammo applies to replicas, not originals. Black powder is only mentioned with regards to muzzle-loaders.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks guys. Based on what I'm seeing. I don't see enough proof it is 100% made before 1898. I believe it probably is, but in the absence of a date and the fact that we don't have concrete dating on commercial contracts, I will likely play it safe and treat as if C&R.

Unless anyone has evidence to the contrary.
 

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Thanks guys. Based on what I'm seeing. I don't see enough proof it is 100% made before 1898. I believe it probably is, but in the absence of a date and the fact that we don't have concrete dating on commercial contracts, I will likely play it safe and treat as if C&R.

Unless anyone has evidence to the contrary.
PM user Heinrich

He literally wrote the book on Reichsrevolvers. If you give him the specific maker, s/n, etc he may be able to help you. There's no one else on the planet who knows as much about the Reichsrevolvers.
 

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Yeah, what Mike said! Heinrich is the go-to guy on this or any other planet :)
Ron
 
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