[Pete E.]

Picked up this decent CZ-24 and holster at the recent SE NAPCA event in TN. Gun was not originally mated-up with the holster.

Gun serial is # 137833.

Can anyone make me smarter on the holster markings ?

Thanks in advance for your help...

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[bohemian]

Pete,

The lion is the national symbol of Czechoslovakia used on all czech military materials, the 1938 in the box is the year of acceptance onto Czech service, and the last four numbers I have no real idea on, but must be a contract number or a julian date or something like that. I have only ever seen two holsters with the same number on them.

the Hr.P19 along with a few different markings are also a mystery to me. Some times there are known Czech unit marks stamped into holsters, some times central stores unit marks, sometimes ink stamps sometimes steel stamps.

Sorry I can not be of more help. Maybe Jan will shed some new light on the markings

Robert

 

[Orv Reichert]

I don't know a lot about the CZ guns...but, all the CZ-24's I have seen had wooden grips...not plastic. ---Are the grips original?

Orv

Orvel L. Reichert
P O Box 67
Vader WA 98593
360 245 3492 tel
360 245 3702 fax
360 520 6520 cel
[email protected]

Quote.....You don't seem to realize that a poor person who is unhappy is in a better position than a rich person who is unhappy. Because the poor person has hope. He thinks money will help.-- Jean Kerr

 

[Jan]

Platic grips were used on Cz vzor 24 & 27 since 1935. Used plastic was phenolic resin with fabric filler named in Czech "Textoplast". Th Hr. P. 19 marking is mystery to me. Maybe is it 19th Frontier Battalion (Hranicarsky Prapor è. 19). In Czech military almanac 1922 I found 10 Battalions only but I am sure in 1938 crissis were some Battalions newly founded.

 

[Pete E.]

Thanks, all, for the great info.

I suspect this pistol was a commercial sale pistol and did not go into military service. I cannot imagine these nice, phenolic grips surviving any military actions without becoming chipped. cracked, or otherwise damaged.

This holster was not sold to me with the gun. I just happend to buy both at the same SE NAPCA convention.

Orv, the phenolic grips do appear to be orginal. They have the same phenolic consistency as my HK Luger Ritzmann grips and all casting/molding details are very crisp and sharp. There is even some checkering pattern in the countersunk grip screw holes...as you might be able to see in my last photo posting.

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Also, I can see the pattern of the filler fabric when you look closely along the inside surfaces of these 1-piece moulded grips; as Jan mentioned.

 

[Jan]

Pete: I am sure your CZ vzor 24 is service pistol of Czech Army. NO commercial sales on CZ vzor 24! Right frame side over the grip I see the army acceptance (E7 lion??). Definitely Army...

 

[jacobtowne]

I agree that the vz24 is military. On the top of the slide in front of the rear sight there should be an lion, which is the Czech military acceptance stamp. A lion should also be stamped on the right frame after the letter and before the year of manufacture. Mine is J lion 28. The year is also stamped on the left slide - CZ28 on mine.
I have a holster much like yours - Lion 1937 2206. It's also stamped with the maker's name - Frant. Sedlacek, Trebomyslice (I think-the ink stamps are faded.)
I've no idea what the four-digit numbers mean, or the punch stamp on your holster.
Is your pistol unit marked? Mine has two different unit markings on the front strap.
JT

There's an additional ink stamp on my holster. It's a large H.1.A. enclosed in a rectangular box. Any ideas?

Replaced eagles with lions. Don't know what the devil I was thinking of.

 

[Pete E.]

Thanks, again, folks for the updated info.

Mine is "J (Lion) 37" stamped on the right side. No stampings of any kind on the left side. I can find no "eagle" stamping of any kind...anywhere on the pistol.

No unit markings on the pistol and no marker's markings on the holster at all.

Jan, I was thinking "commercial" based on what I read in Jan Still's Axis Pistols on page 54 when he mentions "At least 100,000 went to the Army (of over 175,000...my text added, here); most of the remainder went to the Czechoslovakian police and civilan population."

Since, as you say, the "J (Lion) 37" is military, my pistol must have just been lucky to survive military service in very good condition. The bore of my pistol looks like very few rounds were ever fired through it.

I will take a few photo scans of both side and post a bit later today; so you guys can see the markings (and lack of markings) in better detail.

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[jacobtowne]

Pardon me. I misspoke. I meant lion, not eagle. And there's no little lion in front of the rear sight?
Your pistol then is 1937 vintage.
JT

 

[Pete E.]

Jacob,

Your are right...there is a small Lion stamp on the flat, top portion of the receiver/slide...just forward of the rear sight. It was struck with a dull stamp and did not leave a sharp image of the lion. It looks like it was also struck on top of the "stippling" texture along the top of the receiver/slide. I thought it was just a blemish at first.

Does anyone have production numbers per year for the CZ 24 pistol ?

Is there a good CZ book that you might recommend ? I have the Still Axis Pistols book and an older book by I. Hogg...any books that specialize just on CZ pistols ?

 

[Pete E.]

Jacob,

Your are right...there is a small Lion stamp on the flat, top portion of the receiver/slide...just forward of the rear sight. It was struck with a dull stamp and did not leave a sharp image of the lion. It looks like it was also struck on top of the "stippling" texture along the top of the receiver/slide. I thought it was just a blemish at first.

Does anyone have production numbers per year for the CZ 24 pistol ?

Is there a good CZ book that you might recommend ? I have the Still Axis Pistols book and an older book by I. Hogg...any books that specialize just on CZ pistols ?

 

[jacobtowne]

That's a nice looking vz24, by the way. Better than mine, but then mine is 1928 and served in two different regiments.
"Know Your Czechoslovakian Pistols" by R. J. Berger is helpful, a booklet rather than a book. There must be more complete works out there.
The author does not provide annual production figures, but rather contract numbers. Thus, the first contract for 20,000 pistols was completed at the C.Z. factory in June, 1926. 100,000 had been accepted by military and police by the end of 1929.
Army and Air Force inventory of 1/1/39, just before the occupation, shows 171,756 vz24s in service.
JT

 

[jacobtowne]

That's a nice looking vz24, by the way. Better than mine, but then mine is 1928 and served in two different regiments.
"Know Your Czechoslovakian Pistols" by R. J. Berger is helpful, a booklet rather than a book. There must be more complete works out there.
The author does not provide annual production figures, but rather contract numbers. Thus, the first contract for 20,000 pistols was completed at the C.Z. factory in June, 1926. 100,000 had been accepted by military and police by the end of 1929.
Army and Air Force inventory of 1/1/39, just before the occupation, shows 171,756 vz24s in service.
JT

 

[Pete E.]

Jacob,

Thanks on the tip on the CZ booklet. I will try to chase down a copy.

Saw this CZ-24 pistol for sale on this web site; it has serial # 195,709...so it seems that CZ-24 production may have gone higher than the ~ 175,000 pistols.

I was also glad to see I paid a lot less for mine than this one and other CZ-24's on the web site.

http://www.collectiblefirearms.com/Pictures/czp_0041.JPG

 

[jacobtowne]

195,000 is right at the end of production before the occupation, according to Berger.
JT

 

[Pete E.]

Found a lead on this book :

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Is anyone familiar with this book. Is the info. still valid in 2004 ? Is it worth a $ 50-60 purchase ?

Here is the book descrption :

" Ceskoslovenske Pistols 1918 - 1985, by Jan Skramoussky
The very best reference on Czech pistols! Writted in Czech, with English and German chapter summaries. Excellent book with much data not seen elsewhere. Much serial number and year information! "

 

[Orv Reichert]

Pete!

I have the book and found it to be of little or no value </u>in working with the CZ pistols.!

It is in Czech and the English summaries are poorly written and of little value to me. They sound like they used a computer to do the translating.

Orv

Orvel L. Reichert
P O Box 67
Vader WA 98593
360 245 3492 tel
360 245 3702 fax
360 520 6520 cel
[email protected]