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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
All, I’m looking at a CZ 27 with a 1944 commercial proof (Rampant Lion over N / 44) on the front, left side of trigger card. This seems odd for several reasons:

(1) based on estimates of production by year in the Berger book, SN 251xxx should date to 1943;
- German production started at about SN 20500;​
- by the end of 1941, total production at about 42,000 (whether that is 42,000 from SN 20,500, or 42,000 SNs in 1941 alone is unclear, but I “think” it means up to SN 42,000 had been manufactured at / near the end of 1941);​
- about 100,000 made in 1942; and​
- almost 200,000 were produced in 1943.​
Accordingly, even if there was -0- production in 1941, SN 251xxx should have been made around the fall of 1943;​
and

(2) I’ve read that by 1944 all output was going to the military, and certainly not diverted for commercial sale, this has the commercial proof.
Any thoughts on this?

JGW
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If 99.5% of 1943 production went to the military,
that still leaves 1,000 commercial proofed guns.
I fail to see the problem.
The proof seems genuine; it looks just like my (2) Lion/42's.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Question: I assume the grips in my pictures are not OEM original. Did commercial sales have the same grips as used on military issue pistols?

JGW
 

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Nothing is wrong with this CZ. As a matter of fact I believe the grips maybe original. I would leave them on the gun. The 251XXX serial range is near the end of the Bohmische slide and right before the start of the fnh slide variation. There was an overlap around 260,XXX range. We see the last 1000 E/K police contract show up in the 267,XXX to 304,XXX range. The Police contract ended in early of 1944. The fnh police guns do not bear the 44 date however, unlike the others which do have the 41,42 or 43 commercial date. However, they were indeed procurred through early 44. So, more then likely this gun was set aside in late 43 and proofed for commercial sale in early 44. As to the grip. Since this is a commcercial gun it makes sense. They would have saved the normal grips for military use and used a left over grip from stock to fulfill a commcerical request. To me this appears to be a genuine smooth Cz24 grip that was not fully checkered with the CZ27 pattern. It would make sense to use left over old stock to do this. In person you should be able to tell if you see genuine wear marks. But I have a feeling this is not a recently made grip. I like it the way it is.
 

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. . . SN 251xxx should have been made around the fall of 1943; Any thoughts on this? JGW
I think it's a legitimate 44 Commercial. Your concern about the 44 versus the serial number doesn't take into account the path the CZ27 took. Commercial delivered CZ27 firearms made during WWII were not proofed in the factory in Ceska Zbrojovka factory located in Strakonice, Czechoslovakia, as was the case for German Army (WaA76), Navy (E/M), and Police (E/K) CZ27s. Wartime commercial firearms were transported to Praha (Prague) some 70 miles (113 km) away and proofed with the Lion/N proof mark at the Praha proof house. It went through an exception process, being pulled from Army production, transported for proof, transported back, and completed. Commercial guns were not the priority, so it most likely sat around for extended periods of time. I know of another 44 Commercial that has a serial number 218XXX, much earlier than the one you are considering. The price on the one you are considering is on the high side given the grips. I believe they should be Bakelite, like Army production.
 

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For reference, here are my commercial CZ27 serial numbers: '42 sn 59126, '43 sn 214490, '44 sn 218682. All have bakelite grips. The barrel on the '43 pistol has a commmercial proof on the barrel hood but it also has a partially ground off WaA76 proof on the bottom of the barrel. It appears that the barrel was repurposed to commercial use. JGW, I think the pistol you showed is good, but I also think the grips should be bakelite.
 

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I committed to buying this gun and it was marked as sold, when I contacted the seller he told me that it was sold the day before and that they don't update the sight daily. Needless to say I was disappointed and a bit pissed... I went hiking for 2 hours so as to move on.
 

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I committed to buying this gun and it was marked as sold, when I contacted the seller he told me that it was sold the day before and that they don't update the sight daily. Needless to say I was disappointed and a bit pissed... I went hiking for 2 hours so as to move on.
bummer....
 

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I saw it on gunsamerica, if you are willing to share the new seller please pm.
 

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Interesting same seller I called ???
 

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I saw it on Guns International (#102012230 ). It appears to be the same Seller (Vintage Firearms, Inc.) who listed the gun on both sites. The Guns International listing still shows as being available, while the Guns America is indeed marked as SOLD.
 

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It was rude of me to jump on JGW's post like I did, I let my frustration from dealing with this pistol on Saturday carry me away.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
It was rude of me to jump on JGW's post like I did, I let my frustration from dealing with this pistol on Saturday carry me away.
Hessian, no big deal. Don’t worry about it.

I haven’t received a response from the seller, which makes me think it’s already sold and the GI site I’m looking at is not updated. It’s a shame, as I really wanted that CZ 27. But, it seems I would t have gotten it anyway, since Hessian tried to buy it the day before I did.

Note to self: add GunsAmerica to my daily search que so that Hessian (or someone else) doesn’t beat me to the punch!

JGW
 
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