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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
In my daily hunt for variants of the CZ 27 that aren’t on my wall yet, I came across one that had an odd marking on the front, left trigger guard. The pics were poor, so I couldn’t tell if the mark was an actual, intentional marking of some kind, or just mars accumulated over 80 years. Price wasn’t bad, so I bought it.

Now that it is in hand, I am mystified. While it’s possible the mystery mark is really just a coincidental accumulation of mars over time, the marking looks way too “intentional” for that explanation.

Can anyone help identify what I’m looking at? While my pics aren’t great, and I hope to pull out the light box and tripod in the next few days to get better shots, perhaps they are good enough.

(My working theory is that this is the personal mark of Reinhard Heydrich, and the pistol was captured off of him and later given to Jan Kubis. Just a working theory.)

Twig Cross Font Wood Symbol

Air gun Trigger Wood Gun barrel Rectangle

Sleeve Trigger Air gun Gun barrel Gun accessory

Product Air gun Trigger Rectangle Gun barrel

Line Material property Tints and shades Electric blue Metal

Trigger Air gun Sleeve Gun barrel Wood

Material property Wood Tints and shades Automotive exterior Electric blue

Wood Tints and shades Composite material Electric blue Metal
 

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Appears deliberate to me as well and not refinished. An unknown marking to me.
 

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Greg, I thought it was 183887. If that is correct, there is something amiss with the CZ27. At that serial number, there should be a machined side plate with a small side‑plate screw and the full serial number. Photo is a little out of focus, but I don’t see the side-plate serial number or screw. What is the top slide marking and does the slide serial number and barrel serial number match? The closest I have is SN 142447. Markings, finish and types of parts should be the same.
Air gun Gun barrel Font Trigger Gun accessory
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Greg, I thought it was 183887. If that is correct, there is something amiss with the CZ27. At that serial number, there should be a machined side plate with a small side‑plate screw and the full serial number. Photo is a little out of focus, but I don’t see the side-plate serial number or screw. What is the top slide marking and does the slide serial number and barrel serial number match? The closest I have is SN 142447. Markings, finish and types of parts should be the same.
View attachment 683252
I’ll double check it this evening and get better pics.

JGW
 

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Greg, I thought it was 183887. If that is correct, there is something amiss with the CZ27. At that serial number, there should be a machined side plate with a small side‑plate screw and the full serial number. Photo is a little out of focus, but I don’t see the side-plate serial number or screw. What is the top slide marking and does the slide serial number and barrel serial number match? The closest I have is SN 142447. Markings, finish and types of parts should be the same.
Roger, I am actually not too concerned about that. The gun is close enough for me to the 200k range where significant changes too place. Its known to have serious overlap, so that is just a "range'. In this range they changed over to the military blue finish from the high gloss blue, they changed the serial number location to the "top only". If you look at later produced examples, you will notice side plates with no serial numbers and no screw. Maybe this mark has something to do with the start of the change over? Its the lowest serial number I have encountered with no side plate serial number. But the side plate resembles the Fnh code more so then a Boemische, so I do believe this is close to the start of the change.
 

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Roger, I am actually not too concerned about that. The gun is close enough for me to the 200k range where significant changes too place. Its known to have serious overlap, so that is just a "range'. In this range they changed over to the military blue finish from the high gloss blue, they changed the serial number location to the "top only". If you look at later produced examples, you will notice side plates with no serial numbers and no screw. Maybe this mark has something to do with the start of the change over? Its the lowest serial number I have encountered with no side plate serial number. But the side plate resembles the Fnh code more so then a Boemische, so I do believe this is close to the start of the change.
Sam, I have to disagree. Everything I have seen shows that the change from 4-location serialization to top slide only was a pretty abrupt change at 200000. I understand that such cutovers are never clean, but if there are original unaltered sub-200K CZ27s with an unnumbered side plate, I'd like to see them. In the case of Greg's CZ27, it is numbered on right side of the frame nose, and presumably on the top slide. Barrel numbering is TBD. With the frame serial number and no side plate number, I see the CZ27 as having been altered post-factory. Perhaps it does have to do with the odd mark in some way, but I don't think it is factory original configuration. Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

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With a sub-200000 serial number on the frame and matching number of the top slide, the side plate should be serialized like the Cz27 in post #7. The barrel should also carry the full serial number. It's worth checking. My guess from the photos is that somewhere along the way, the side plate has been replaced. No idea why or if the side plate replacement and the odd trigger guard mark are related. I'm 50/50 on the mark actually being a deliberate mark versus random handling marks. I've never seen anything like it, but the gun could have a rich history in the 75+ years since it was made.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
It is a property stamp of the Czech army after 1945. ( T above X ).
Fritz, thank you!! What else can you tell us by this stamp?

  • When it was used (_ - __)?
  • What all firearms (pistols? rifles?) and/or other items was it used on (knives? Bayonets? larger weapons?)?
  • Can you point me to and/or link to any reference materials (books, articles, websites, photographs, etc., etc.) that show, identify or describe this? Or that deal more generally with Czech Army property stamps?
  • When did this property stamp quit being used?
  • How commonly is it found?

I hope you don't mind all these follow up questions, but I am quite excited about this information!

Best regards,

JGW
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
With a sub-200000 serial number on the frame and matching number of the top slide, the side plate should be serialized like the Cz27 in post #7. The barrel should also carry the full serial number. It's worth checking. My guess from the photos is that somewhere along the way, the side plate has been replaced. No idea why or if the side plate replacement and the odd trigger guard mark are related. I'm 50/50 on the mark actually being a deliberate mark versus random handling marks. I've never seen anything like it, but the gun could have a rich history in the 75+ years since it was made.
This seems the most likely explanation at this point to me.

JGW
 

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Men,

Please have some patience. I also owned an S&S Behördenmodell with the same stamping.

One of the largest German arms dealers and a very good friend of mine imported many handguns from Bulgaria and Romania in the 1980s. Mine and a few other pistols with this stamp came from this lot. I was assured at the time that this stamp was of Czech origin. I also found a reference in the literature, but it was merely the indication of the meaning of the stamp, if I remember correctly.

Now I have to look for it first.

Best regards
 

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Interesting. It reminds me of the familiar Russian X capture mark, but with the Czech T (Tsjech) stamped on top of it. I wonder if the marking was done in 2 separate stages. The X after capture and the T when it became Czechoslovakian army again.
 
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