[Scutter]

Is the appropriate ammunition for a CZ22 vz.22 .380 ACP, Zbrojovka Brno, Matching, Unit marked truly 9 mm kurz?

Did 9mm N (Nickl) ever exist?

 

[Scutter]

@Vlim ???

 

[sgabrie8544]

Can we see both sides of the pistol in full?

 

[Vlim]

I believe there was, a 9x19 sized reduced charge version. I will look it up.

 

[sgabrie8544]

It’s a .380, the N is just to identify it as a Nickl design. It’s not the rare rimless version of the .380.

 

[Vlim]

Ok, the short version:

It seems that the 9mmN is basically similar to the 9mmK (.380 auto) with the exception of the rim, which has been turned back so the rim diameter is smaller.

It may have been a modification that allowed a quick barrel swap between a .32 and a .380 cartridge.

Turning down the rim is not needed, as the breech/bolt face for a .32/.380 can just be in the .380 size, as Mauser did on their post ear HSc. It will work on .32 and .380 rounds.

So, possibly, it was a design fluke and they quickly realized the 9mmN rim was not needed after all.

Similar things happened with Mauser's .32 auto. Initially it differed just a little bit in case lenght from the FN .32 auto. So Mauser decided to go with the Browning .32 auto specs and dropped their own.

Anyway we have 3 possibilities:
1. 9mm N. could translate as 9mmK (Kurz = short, aka .380.auto).
2. 9mm N. is a .380 with a rebated rim (9mm Nickl).
3. It is possible that the “N” on the M1922 CZ pistol simply stands for Naboyev (Cartridge).

 

[2bnag]

9mm Nickl

 

[Vlim]

Some drawings published on the IAA forum:

 

[Scutter]

The new addition is arriving this week, I should be able to offer clearer images upon receipt. However, from the very nice gentleman from whom I purchased, here are some photos:

 

[Scutter]

Some drawings published on the IAA forum:
View attachment 696107
View attachment 696108

… as compared to off the shelf commercial (.380)?

 

[sgabrie8544]

this gun ( which is very unreliable, and many of the parts are not interchangeable within the same run), is 9mm Kurz, The 9mm Nickl was an experimental round. All 20K of this Model have the N. Not seen that often, this is a good $1K piece.

 

[Scutter]

Any insights on the divisional markings on the grip strap to research??? 😃

 

[Scutter]

Thank you for all of your input!
I’m excited about this example addition to my collection line from the earliest 1910 Sidelatch to the conclusion of Mauser/Nickl thread.

 

[Like_Old_Guns]

Here's another comparison, side-by-side. Just confirms what has already been stated.

 

[Scutter]

Here's another comparison, side-by-side. Just confirms what has already been stated.

View attachment 696129

THANK YOU! Perfect visual w/ explanation. Maybe on a look out for model 1917! 😉

 

[Deutschland]

Unit mark D= Artillery.

 

[rob67gt]

Deutschland is correct this is the 782nd weapon in the 11th artillery unit. If I am seeing the pictures clearly, this pistol has an internal extractor. That would make it the second variation of the VZ22. So if you are collecting variations along the Nickl line you need a Variation 1 VZ22 also. You can use that to justify another purchase.

Zbrovjka lost there contract to build this pistol for the Czech government because they were not able to produce fast enough and have interchangeable parts (most hand fitted). CZ got the new contract and ultimately reworked the design to the VZ24. At least from what I recall away from my references.

Nice pistol!

 

[Scutter]

Deutschland is correct this is the 782nd weapon in the 11th artillery unit. If I am seeing the pictures clearly, this pistol has an internal extractor. That would make it the second variation of the VZ22. So if you are collecting variations along the Nickl line you need a Variation 1 VZ22 also. You can use that to justify another purchase.

Zbrovjka lost there contract to build this pistol for the Czech government because they were not able to produce fast enough and have interchangeable parts (most hand fitted). CZ got the new contract and ultimately reworked the design to the VZ24. At least from what I recall away from my references.

Nice pistol!

Thank you!

 

[dpast32]

Pretty much as others have said before me. Although there were & are ‘other’ relatively obscure / obsolete 9mm variants, the one one that maintains any relevance in today’s World would be the 9x21, IIRC. That ctg was developed to bypass Italian Law which does not allow any civilians to possess any caliber currently in Italian Military use. Other Countries also have similar mandates, hence the reason for, & popularity of a few certain cartridges, such as the aforementioned 9x21, .38 Super primarily in Mexico & elsewhere, 7.65mm Luger is yet another which found its way into Sig-Sauer P.220’s during the 1970’s +. Remember, when the average folks are denied use of something, they tend to strive for a way to circumvent it !! Soooo, your CZ should work just fine with the .380 ACP, aka 9mm Kurtz / Corto. Personally, I would use the weakest load available.

Best, Dom P.