[Mark]

Gentlemen,

I have acquired a 1941 dated CZ27 holster. Most of the holsters I have seen are dated 1942. Does anyone know how rare this holster is?

Also, if you are interested, I have an, almost, complete collection of CZ27's with photo's available here:

http://www.p38guns.com/CZ27.htm

Mark

Download Attachment: CZ27holster.jpg
211.57KB

 

[bohemian]

Mark,

The 41 dated holster is not what I would call rare, but they are getting tough to find. The 42 dated holster is far easier to find.

Great start on the Cz-27 collection. Here is a list of some that you are missing

Early Cz-27 (very much like a Cz-24, very early)
Pre War Police,
Pre War Commercial
Pre War Post office
Pre War Rail Road
Pre War Military (1936, 1937, and 1938 examples)
Pre German conversion, nazi marked
DR guns (German Railroad)
AKAH guns
Geco Guns
Early German production high polish guns (you have one of these)
No serial number guns
Early stamped safeties
U guns
Eagle K Police (41, 42, 43, and two different no dates)
Military blue (you have one of these)
Duel tone blue
No serial number on frame (you have one of these)
Phosphate finish War time strawed small parts
Phosphate finish War time phosphated small parts
Phosphate finish War time with stamped take down lever
Phosphate finish War time with stamped safety release
Phosphate finish War time silencer barrel
Phosphate finish Post war No proofs
Post war High polish (you have one of these) (some of these have nicely engraved names on them)
Sanitized (milled off slide top, grip emblem and acceptance mark)
Post war Commercial (45, 46, 47, 48, 49, rumors of a 50 date also)
Post War Military (45 and 46 dated)
Post war Post Office
Post war Rail Road
Post War labor Union

Serial numbers run upwards of 622000. Ok maybe I got a little carried away, but with over 600000 guns you get variation, especially with a large war effort and production both before and after the war. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

Robert

 

[Mark]

Robert,

That is one heck of a list! Do you have a book, in English, that you would recommend on these pistols? Also, I have seen a no serial number gun for sale, what is the history of this variation? Post war?

Thanks,

Mark

 

[aaron]

I notice you do not list a CZ with matching numbered mag. Do you not regard it as a separate variation?

 

[bohemian]

I an not sure that there are many Cz-27s that had matching numbered mags. Only some of the Police guns and some post war reworks have numbered mags and almost all these guns are modified after leaving the factory. So no I do not consider that a seperate variation.

Robert

 

[aaron]

I have a CZ-27 with magazine numbered to the gun, serial 104300. There are no police acceptance marks. If there is any interest I will post photos.

 

[Dgiz]

Robert (Bohemian)
Really enjoyed your CZ27 list. It did bring up a couple of questions. Could I get more details on a couple of pistols you listed?
First, the pre war military ones. I never knew that the Czechs had ever procured any CZ27s for the army(military)? I would be interested in more info.
Second, pre German conversion?
No serial number guns?
No serial number on frames?
I am interested in these variations, if you have more time could you post more info, history of use and details of these.
Thanks for any help. Dean

 

[Greg G]

I think Simpson LTD has a couple of the no serial number CZ 27s listed on their website.

 

[Orv Reichert]

How about the postwar with a .30 cal shown on the slide instead of .32?...I own this one:

CZ-27 .32 589258 '47 DATE MARKED .30 CAL ON SLIDE

I am told that the .32 ACP was known as the .30 Browning in some parts of Europe.

Orv Reichert

 

[bohemian]

Dean,

1) Pre War Cz-27: In 1935 Cz-27’s start showing up with military acceptance marks on them. All the J lion 35 serial numbers I have seen are on Police guns. The first military marked pistols without Police marks show up in 1936 with the J lion 36 acceptance mark, followed by J lion 37 acceptance marks and then the new acceptance code series of E7 lion 38. Maybe I should have said that there are pistols accepted by the Miltary acceptance office. More specifically I should say that the pistols were accepted by ZTU (Zbrojne Technicky Urad - Office of weapon technologies) in Strakonice, which was in charge of accepting army pistols. I guess it doesn’t mean that they were used by the miltary, they were just acceptance marked by the miltary acceptance office.

2) Pre German Conversion: These pistols are the AKAH, GECO and DR marked pistols. Most are proofed with the lion n 40 proof. There are 39, 40 and 41 dated Commercial pistols with the CESKA ZBROJOVKA A.S v PRAZE slide top marking.

3) No serial number guns: These guns appear to be the first run of German Production. They have all the German changes in them. BOHMISCHE WAFFENFABRIK A.G. IN PRAG slide top markings, Pistole Modell 27 Kal. 7,65 slide legend and the vertical grasping grooves. Another clue is the machine safety release that rather quickly is replaced with a stamped safety release. These guns are prior to the series if “U” guns. The “U” guns all have the stamped safety release.

4) There is a well-documented block of serial numbers that has pistols that have no serial number on the frame. The serial number is on the slide only. Serial numbers are in the 233xxx range.

I hope this helps answer some of your questions. If not ask again. Sometimes it takes a few tries to get through my thick head.

Robert

 

[bohemian]

Orv,

Yes that is a unique variation. I do not have one of those. It figures that I would forget something.

Thanks for pointing that out for me. Is it possible to let me know what serial number that gun is so I can start to define the serial number range of those guns?

Thanks,

Robert

 

[Dgiz]

Robert,
Thanks for the info!
On the no serial number and no serial number on frame variation is there still the WaA76 on the right frame?
Dean

 

[bohemian]

Dean,

The no serial number guns do not have any WaA76 above the right frame. The guns with no serial numbers on the right front frame are just like any other Cz27 except that the serial number is not on the frame. It does have the WaA76 above grip on the right side.

Robert

 

[bohemian]

Dean,

The no serial number guns do not have any WaA76 above the right frame. The guns with no serial numbers on the right front frame are just like any other Cz27 except that the serial number is not on the frame. It does have the WaA76 above grip on the right side.

Robert

 

[Orv Reichert]

Robert...here are my Czech guns...the .30 cal is in red..Orv

CZECH CZ-24 9MMK 61399 SA (FINLAND) MARKED
CZECH CZ-27 7,65 107468 EARLY GERMAN PRODUCTION
CZECH CZ-27 7,65 321641 FNH CODE-WAA +HOLSTER
CZECH CZ-27 7,65 331536 FNH CODE-NAZI MILITARY
CZECH CZ-27 7,65 375752 FNH CODE-NAZI MILITARY
CZECH CZ-27 7,65 472155 FNH CODE-NAZI MILITARY
CZECH CZ-27 7,65 564132 99% DTD 47 WITH BOX
CZECH CZ-27 7,65 589258 ('47) MARKED .30
CZECH CZ-38 9MMK 261003 SA (FINLAND) MARKED
CZECH CZ-38 9MMK 277107 DTD '39...NEAR MINT
CZECH CZ-45 6,5MM 767767 1948-MINT WITH BOX/PAPERS-

PS..I think that Bell has a .30 ...and so does Bob H.

 

[Orv Reichert]

here is a link to the photo of the .30 cal marked CZ27

http://img29.photobucket.com/albums/v87/Reichol71/589258_30cal.jpg

Orv

 

[Mark]

Bohemian,

I really appreciate your knowledge on these guns, based on your list I just acquired this.

Mark

Download Attachment: CZ27Scrubbed.jpg
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[bohemian]

Mark,

The ole pistol from Empire Arms. Actually the removed markings are Czech markings and not German markings. The serial numbers are after a bunch of Czech Government guns, with Post Office and Railroad markings. The removed proof mark was actaully a J lion 46 acceptance mark. At least one of the pistols I have seen still has part of the 6 visible. I can't prove it, but I think the Cz-27 was back in production when these pistols were altered. I don't think that they are made from left over parts. I think the Cz-27 production ended in 1947, even though guns are proofed out into 1949.

Neat Pistol,

Robert

 

[Mark]

Robert,

Thanks for the info, I was wondering why the serial number range was higher than my high polish post war gun. Can't believe I paid under $200.00 for it!

Mark