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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Jan,
This was high, in the 98% PPK E/N with extension mag. range, but I was unable to resist.
Seems that the odder the pistol, the more I am compelled to mortgage the farm for it.
Oh well, that's WW2 pistol collecting in the 21st century.
 

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Pancho, maybe we're not supposed to talk about auctions here (I'm still a relative newbie), but there's a "WWII CZ38 Bulgarian Military" (looks to be in the 92-95% range with some finish loss at the usual holster contact points) on GunBroker right now (Auction No. 18727406, closes 5/26/04) at a minimum bid of $2,500 and "Buy It Now" price of $2,795. (The seller is from Davenport, Iowa.) Just thought you or perhaps others might want to know, if you hadn't seen it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Webleyman,
Thanks for your informative response.
Holy cow, I paid $1,045, last month, in a regular internet auction (AuctionArms). There were plenty of other bidders, and market forces determined that my bid was the highest value for the piece, thus establishing current market value.
My opinion, $2,795 is little bit nuts.
Pancho
PS. I've never heard that discussing auctions was taboo on this forum. Clearly, seems OK by my book. I would always appreciate any posting that might alert me to an auction for a piece which I needed for my collection. I would not have any complaint regarding your posting or any similar posting.
 

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Webleyman
If there is a restriction on discussing auctions, I would like to know about it. I am sure the members find the auction information helpful in making additions to the collection.
Jan
 

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how can you tell it is for bulgaria. I have seen 4 on the net for sale and they all have the lion on it, most from 1939 and Czechslavokia used the rampant lion also,however there is a slight difference from there lion and that is the tail,but on the pistol how can you tell that is a bulgarian gun???(not doubting just seeking info,i collect bulgarian),,I have to my collection a Bulgarian luger holster,a 88/90 Steyr long rifle and NCO bayonet with it and BUlgarian markingson the rifle,a Budapest 1914 stutzen and a Budapest 1914 carbine.and a bulgarian pp holster or med sized caliber holster
 

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The pistol pictured in Pancho's topic is CZ vzor 37. This SA/DA pistol with safety lever was almost entirely produced for Bulgarian Police department in Sofia. A less than 200 pistols were sold in Protektorat Böhmen und Mähren.

Deliveries:
December 1940 - 241 pistols
January 1941 - 759 pistols
November 13th, 1941 - 1400 pistols
Total - 2400 pistols

CZ vzor 38 is DAO pistol without safety lever.
 

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Yes of course! "Protektorat Böhmen und Mähren", in Czech "Protektorát Èechy a Morava" means simply Protectorate Bohemia and Moravia. So was called the rest of Czechoslovak Republic after German occupation and without so called Sudetenland and independent clergy-nationalist Slovak State.
Anyways: Ex-Czech army army CZ 38 pistols were marked with army acceptance marks (E7 Lion 38), contract and commercial pistols are marked with commercial proof (N Lion, interlacing).
 

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If it is agreed that the proper nomenclature should be CZ37 instead of CZ38, then why does your heading refer to CZ39 ???
 

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Once more please:

ÈZ vzor 37 - Safety lever, SA/DA, Bulgarian Police Contract, few sold to commercial market.

ÈZ vzor 38 - DAO, NO safety lever, Czech Army contract confiscated by Germans.

P.39(t) - German denomination, year change to avoid confusion with P.38

Huggiebear is right. Pancho: Please change the heading "ÈZ vzor 37". On last picture is wrongly "Bulgarian Lion WW 2" it is Czech comm. proof.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Huggiebear,
I know of 3 collectors who have experience with these very rare pistols. Among those collectors, and in written works, this pistol is commonly referred to as a "CZ39 Bulgarian". Right or wrong, that is how this pistol seems to be identified among collectors. If I place myself in the vanguard and start calling it something else, say for instance, the more accurate name of "ÈZ vzor 37", with which our helpful friend Hoba has enlighted us, no one in the U.S. will know what I am talking about. So, for practical purposes, I will stay with the commonly identified nomemclature, CZ39 Bulgarian.
Also, see Still's Axis pistols, P. 304 where he refers to it twice as a CZ39, in once instance, "Cz 39 with the manual safety was manufactured during WW2 for Bulgaria". On page 306 he refers to it once as a "Cz 38". I am not going to rewrite Still. It would be unethical and disrespectful to do so. I cite his information accurately. I am not an expert on these weapons, and I rightly bow to the noted authorities on this subject. When I write about 10 great books on WW2 pistols, then maybe I would feel qualified enough to dispute Still, NOT.

Hoba, similarly, I've redone the images. Look them over to see if I made the correct changes to your information.

Thanks, men.
 

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No problem, Pancho. The information about right denomination is relatively new. For first published (here in Czech republic...) December 2001 by Mr. Jan Skramoussky, ÈZ expert.
 

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Pancho
Feel free to correct, add to, or criticise any of the information in my books. Your comments have always been excellent. When fellow collectors on this Forum correct me, I will continue to benefit from this Forum.
Jan
 

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I am going to have to respectfully disagree with Poncho on his using the Cz-39 Bulgarian name just because it is commonly called that. I am forever correcting folks to what real designations are and why they are what they are. Just because a book labels a firearm with a specific designation does not make it so. Books are written with data that is acquired during researching for the book. When a new book comes out that is written using a new designation of a formerly known as firearm we should be trying to propagate the correct newly found designation. So call it a Cz vz. 37 (formerly known as CZ39 Bulgarian). Mr. Skramoussky spent a lot of time in the Strakonice archives researching his book. I would tend to believe it. Granted not all that Mr. Skramoussky published has been correct, but I would expect model designations wouldn't be one of the incorrect items. Jan Balcar, another collector and myself have been in contact with each other for at least a couple years now. Sharing data back and forth is how we were able to find information on the early pistols that was different than that published by Mr. Skramoussky. Working together sharing data is how we evolve and when that evolution finds new more correct designations. I think we ought to propagate the new information when ever possible. We would still be calling the Cz vz. 28 the long frame Cz-24 if we only used the older published books. None of this is not intended to be disrespectful, its just my opinion.

Robert
 
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