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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We finally made it home from Tulsa and it was a good trip, here is one of the items brought home. I would like to again acknowledge forum member's "I like old guns" and "nieuport" for jumping through the early morning hoops and helping me with info, appreciate both of you. Now for the gun, notice anything ?
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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
You guys are heading in the right direction for sure.. burning hot. It's an unnumbered CZ 27 with only a WaAmpt and proof on the barrel. Why, well it appears nobody knows for sure. There seems to be many different explanations depending who you talk to, somebody is right. These are reported and I have a friend who has one as well. All the indications reflect an early production build. A prominent CZ 27 from Oregon states he has three of them. So they can be found.
 

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Why early production? I would have thought very late, end of war production (as in found in the captured factory yet to be serialized) given its nice condition. But machining doesn’t look hurried. But what do I know.

Ez
Barrel is "with" the metal stub located above and behind the chamber(could have a different name) which I understand was stopped at 200000 serial number. They were still making nicely finished examples below that mark if we consider that a possibility. As mentioned there are lots of theories.
 

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Great find! Wonder if these were made around the same early occupation period as the unnumbered CZ24s that also lack serials and only have the WaA76 and test proof located on the barrel.
Thank for sharing this information about the Cz24's, I wasn't aware of this.
 

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Hi Hessian. I just took apart one of my 2 CZ27s with no serial #s and it also has the WaA76 and firing proof on the barrel. Mine also has a "B"...pictures below. Sorry for the different shade in the pics...I promise it is the same barrel.

Does yours have the same marking? It doesn't look like it based on the pics

Your CZ27 is a beautiful example! Thanks for posting.

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Thank for sharing this information about the Cz24's, I wasn't aware of this.
Sure thing! Just spitballing given the similar features but guess we may never know. From what I understand the no-serial CZ24s were made shortly after occupation began with leftover parts in the factory. One interesting feature is the straight slide serrations like the 27s instead of the slanted style found on the pre-occupation production 24s. WaA76 and test proof on barrel only. Maybe there was a period of early German production where serials weren’t issued for whatever reason…or maybe there isn’t a correlation at all! Like your 27 there are enough examples to account for it being a known variation. Here’s one I came across a while back:
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hi Hessian. I just took apart one of my 2 CZ27s with no serial #s and it also has the WaA76 and firing proof on the barrel. Mine also has a "B"...pictures below. Sorry for the different shade in the pics...I promise it is the same barrel.

Does yours have the same marking? It doesn't look like it based on the pics

Your CZ27 is a beautiful example! Thanks for posting.

View attachment 687503 View attachment 687504
I can check in the morning and respond, that's great for you to have two of them!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Sure thing! Just spitballing given the similar features but guess we may never know. From what I understand the no-serial CZ24s were made shortly after occupation began with leftover parts in the factory. One interesting feature is the straight slide serrations like the 27s instead of the slanted style found on the pre-occupation production 24s. WaA76 and test proof on barrel only. Maybe there was a period of early German production where serials weren’t issued for whatever reason…or maybe there isn’t a correlation at all! Like your 27 there are enough examples to account for it being a known variation. Here’s one I came across a while back:
View attachment 687505
View attachment 687509
View attachment 687506
I just put that on the to buy list !
 

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WOW, that is a beauty. I think I have seen many WW1 / WW2a number pistols without a serial number, picked up by GI's or taken out of the factory. I have always wondered if some of these were presentation guns, not to bigwigs, but folks who came through the factory or a visiting VIP?
 

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Naah, just after the war locals would do anything to make a few bucks or trade for food. Assembling souvenir guns was an easy way and it happened at most factories.

Guns would also be assembled for protection, useful in dark and insecure days.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
WOW, that is a beauty. I think I have seen many WW1 / WW2a number pistols without a serial number, picked up by GI's or taken out of the factory. I have always wondered if some of these were presentation guns, not to bigwigs, but folks who came through the factory or a visiting VIP?
Ed, there are a good amount of idea's why, some of them a bit wild. What we do know is that there are examples such as the CZ 24 that reflect no serial number. We do know that oddities happened in the very early German production at Radom for example and we don't know why. Late war, mid war and early production oddities are out there and in known collection's. I hesitate to say the old collector's line, "They never did that". The final word on most of what we collect may not have been totally written about yet. Plenty of people have been bit by assuming that it has.That said, I think that there is plenty that we on all firearms would agree on. My old friend RIP Forrest Hedges was buying P08's after the war for $15.00, lined up in rows at the hardware store, when I asked him what reference they had for the markings he said, "We didn't have any.. we had no idea what they meant. We just bought them". We still have a way to go I suspect.
 

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This is an interesting CZ27 in terrific condition. I know of at least four of them in the hands of three different collectors. I have heard of many more, but not seen them. Without a serial number we lose our index on when it was manufactured. These are uncommon, but not one-off guns. They are not lunch-box specials. The serial numbers on CZ27s were applied before the guns were finished, and these guns are all factory finished. These guns were deliberately produced by Strakonice without serial numbers.

The marking on the top slide are BÖHMISCHE WAFFENFABRIK A.G. IN PRAG and the markings on the left side slide are Pistol Modell 27 Kal. 7,65. The barrel is marked with an “Eagle/WaA76” and has a German “Eagle/Swastika” firing proof. These are all German stipulated markings. Even though the Germans marched into Czechoslovakia in March of 1939, it wasn’t until the second half of 1941 that they decided to impose their will on the Česká Zbrojovka plant in Strakonice. These un‑serialized guns all have a milled side plate with a screw. The screw was eliminated and changed to stamped steel around serial 252000 in approximately the 3rd quarter 1943. With any 70+ year old collectable, the finishes on the un-serialized examples vary. For the ones in good condition, it appears that the finishes are the early high‑polish, rather than the later military blue, but it is difficult to be certain. In general, the finishes are very good. The early high-polish ceased being used pretty abruptly at serial number 200000 estimated to be in the 2nd quarter of 1943. Lastly, and telling, all of the un‑serialized examples have the stamped magazine catch, which is the last of the four variations of catches used introduced in approximately mid-1942. All of these data points suggest this ilk of un-serialized CZ27 was made between mid-1942 and mid-1943.

These un-serialized CZ27s seem to share the manufacturing characteristics of the un-serialized “U” marked CZ27s (U believed to be Ubung for training) and perhaps all could have been produced in the same production run. Maybe “U” marked CZ27s are simply the un‑serialized CZ27s with the addition of the E/4 slide stamp and the electro-penciling on the slide and side plate, when they were required to be deployed as training pistols. It's just a theory. The exact purpose is probably lost to history.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
This is an interesting CZ27 in terrific condition. I know of at least four of them in the hands of three different collectors. I have heard of many more, but not seen them. Without a serial number we lose our index on when it was manufactured. These are uncommon, but not one-off guns. They are not lunch-box specials. The serial numbers on CZ27s were applied before the guns were finished, and these guns are all factory finished. These guns were deliberately produced by Strakonice without serial numbers.

The marking on the top slide are BÖHMISCHE WAFFENFABRIK A.G. IN PRAG and the markings on the left side slide are Pistol Modell 27 Kal. 7,65. The barrel is marked with an “Eagle/WaA76” and has a German “Eagle/Swastika” firing proof. These are all German stipulated markings. Even though the Germans marched into Czechoslovakia in March of 1939, it wasn’t until the second half of 1941 that they decided to impose their will on the Česká Zbrojovka plant in Strakonice. These un‑serialized guns all have a milled side plate with a screw. The screw was eliminated and changed to stamped steel around serial 252000 in approximately the 3rd quarter 1943. With any 70+ year old collectable, the finishes on the un-serialized examples vary. For the ones in good condition, it appears that the finishes are the early high‑polish, rather than the later military blue, but it is difficult to be certain. In general, the finishes are very good. The early high-polish ceased being used pretty abruptly at serial number 200000 estimated to be in the 2nd quarter of 1943. Lastly, and telling, all of the un‑serialized examples have the stamped magazine catch, which is the last of the four variations of catches used introduced in approximately mid-1942. All of these data points suggest this ilk of un-serialized CZ27 was made between mid-1942 and mid-1943.

These un-serialized CZ27s seem to share the manufacturing characteristics of the un-serialized “U” marked CZ27s (U believed to be Ubung for training) and perhaps all could have been produced in the same production run. Maybe “U” marked CZ27s are simply the un‑serialized CZ27s with the addition of the E/4 slide stamp and the electro-penciling on the slide and side plate, when they were required to be deployed as training pistols. It's just a theory. The exact purpose is probably lost to history.
Thank you so much for taking the time to share with us so much valuable information as to this particular CZ 27. In particular for me as the buyer of this gun it's very well received, "Thank you".
 
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Here is mine for reference. I bought it from Val Berman who used to post on this site, I'm not sure it he still does. These are his for-sale pics. My notes don't mention if it has a WaA76 stamp on the barrel. I could dig it out, but it will be a while before I could get to it.


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