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First, to start with: I am not much of a handgun collector (I only have around 25 M1911(A1) pistols of various manufacturers, several Liberator pistols and maybe 20-30 other revolvers and pistols) and never bothered that much on Luger pistols since the few I have are more or less ones that I ran into. My main interest are sniper rifles of all nations, the US rifles starting 1903, plus I do have quite some German WWII rifles with a greater focus on K98k rifles (plus a bunch of items which I ran into and mainly bought because they are rare and/or of special interest to me for technical or historical reasons).

Recently I stumbled across a Luger pistol which caught my interest for being marked with a Deaths Head. It was priced in a region of a normal wartime Luger as well as from initial comparisons with other Deaths Head stamps it appeared nothing recently applied, so I thought I would not risk much in buying it.

As I had mentioned above, my background is much based on what is known and common in the world of K98k rifle collectors. With the K98k rifle there had been great research and documentation on SS production/usage already been done. The probably best and most recent research on these rifles was published by Michael Steves and Bruce Karem in their three volumes (of four books total) "Vol. 1 - Karabiner 98k", "Vol 2 - Karabiner 98k I" and "Vol 2 - Karabiner 98k II", as well as "Kriegsmodell". To summarize it in very few words, the SS rifle production can be split between the early years where they did not have access to newly manufactured parts/guns and had to re-use and "produce" their own weapons, based on old guns which were on stock, and the later production where they were "officially accepted" (Hitler ordered that the SS divisions to be armed according to the Army table of equipment and organization on 10th January 1942) had great access especially to the production at Steyr and Brünn from which they were delivered newly made parts to produce guns themselves. I'm now referring not to the later production rifles with newly made parts, but to the early conversions that were outcarried.

Many Gewehr 98 as well as even Kar98a (small ring action rifles!) were converted to K98k rifles by the SS. All of these conversions have in common that after the barrel shortening they were (again) and this time commercially proofed on the underside of the barrel shank what was and still is a requirement per the German proof laws, as well as that the original receiver markings were scrubbed and the barrel shanks were stamped with various Deaths Head configurations. The commercial proofs on the underside of the barrel start from mid to late 1936. There are variants of the Deaths Head stamps on the barrel shank which not only differ by the "item" above the Deaths Head (could be a +, a "lazy S", gullwing, SS, SS2, 01 or even a =), some even carry more than one Deaths Head stamps. However, there are patterns that these guns follow, like for example all known SS K98k Sniper rifles based on these Gew98 to K98k conversions carry the SS2 marked Deaths Head, plus particular Deaths Heads appearing in certain periods or with certain proof dates. There is an excellent writeup with timeline from one of the book authors published in their forum in a thread: http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?35803-Lets-talk-SS-Deaths-Heads .

To get back to the Deaths Head marked Luger pistols: from researching on this forum and other sources it appears that one stronger believe in the Luger collecting community is that Deaths Head marked Luger pistols are associated with the WWI period, since many of the guns that had turned up appear with certain manufacturers/years. From what I was able to understand there however has not been any research or particular comparison with these pistols to K98k rifles from the SS been done, and seen what could vice versa be applied. I truly admit that the amount of Luger 08 pistols with Deaths Head that turn up are extremely limited compared to the number of K98k rifles with Deaths Head what makes serial studies tougher, but at least these pistols should not only be compared with other Luger 08 pistols, but also SS K98k rifles.

Based on all the above thoughts I therefore looked at the pistol that I have acquired in greater detail and compared it with the Gew98 to K98k rifle conversions. The pistol has scrubbed manufacturer and year markings, the barrel is not serialized and obviously a replacement barrel, as well as the pistol features commercial firing proofs. The Deaths Head stamp was applied where originally the manufacturing year would had been applied and is the Deaths Head with the "Lazy S". I then compared the Deaths Head stamp on the pistol to SS conversion rifles with the same Deaths Head stamp, both by size and form. The result was that the size is identical, and as good as it can be told it appeared also the shape (the stamp jumped when applied to the pistol, making it a partially double struck stamp, as well as it seemed the stamp was flat whereas the pistol in this area is beveled resulting in a not fully applied stamp). Next I compared the shape of the commercial firing proofs, and this time I included a commercially manufactured DWM 1920 Luger pistol that I own. The result was quite astonishing in that both the crown on the 1920 Luger is different (more narrow) than the crown on the SS Gew98 to K98k conversion, which is identical to the Deaths Head on my Luger pistol. The same applies to the letter N below the crown which is of a different font on the 1920 Luger, whereas once again it is identical on the SS Gew98 to K98k conversions and the Luger pistol of mine.

One could now argue that anyone with access to a SS Gew98 to K98k conversion could get identical stamps being made, but reproducing a firing proof stamp would be considered as falsification of documents since these are protected governmental insignia and you'd get a lot of years in prison for simply owning a stamp like this here in Europe. So I would outrule that. I also do not think anyone here would question the applied proof stamps. The pistol is all matching numbers. Several numbers have been newly applied with an identical font stamp which is also to be found with SS conversions of Gew98 to K98k. The only mismatching part is found on the inside and according to US websites named "Hold-Open Latch with Spring". This part also carries an Imperial German proof stamp.

There is no documentation on the SS having reworked pistols. On the other hand, there is also no reason why they should not have reworked pistols. There are Luger holsters which are documented with pictures to have been Deaths Head stamped and carried by SS, so the SS must have had Luger pistols in a time frame where they did not have access to newly manufactured Luger pistols, so they must had used pistols from old stock.

I would kindly ask for opinions to this pistol, knowing the discussion will be controversial. My goal was to also share as much information as possible that lead to various thoughts not to get approvals by members here, but to give a broad basis for a detailed discussion and to allow why I think in particular ways and I'm really keen to hear from Luger experts what they think and why they think this way. I am not trying to get an approval from experts here, but to hopefully close a link between the research on the K98k rifles and the Luger pistols for benefit of all collectors.
 

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A firing proof stamp from 70-80 years ago could put someone in jail? Ok, then you are going on the basis that ALL of these are not fakes?
I know, I have dealt with some K98 folks and they are very defensive of being right when it comes to Simson markings and deaths head markings.

From your long disertation, it appears that you already have your mind made up...

I will say that many K98 folks say that the deaths head marking is correct and accurate. Most luger people will say that ANY WW2 deaths head are faked.

So, as they say - convince me WHY they are real please.
 

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I agree with Ed about the WWII death's head being faked. However, it is my opinion that there are some legitimate WWI Lugers with a death's head. Marking a Luger to a unit was common in WWI, and it is entirely possible that a unit such as the 17th Hussar could have marked their Lugers with the Totenkopf...Bill
 

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My position is that of a historian that has worked with original documentation and a team of researchers.

Sorry, but without contract documentation I consider it an added "decoration", most likely done post war to increase value or interest in those focused on the RHSA.

The WW-I markings were, obviously, entirely unrelated to a Nazi era organization.
 

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A commercial DWM luger of 1920 will have a different crown N, as it was proved by a different proof house(Spandau) than the luger you show in the post.
Your newly acquired luger carries the crown N of the Suhl proof house.

" but reproducing a firing proof stamp would be considered as falsification of documents since these are protected governmental insignia and you'd get a lot of years in prison for simply owning a stamp like this here in Europe. So I would outrule that." Really? Then the current manufacturers and sellers of fake/reproduction German stamps of all types would be in jail in Poland. They offer these brazen modern fake stamps online and have for years- maybe they just don't sell them in Europe. :rolleyes:

My considered opinion on the posted luger is that it is quite similar to those found here in the US, one of which I have owned and posted here.
I considered mine to be a "fake", and think the same of this one; but, there is always a chance, however small, that they could be real- or that "real" DH lugers do exist.
I have no doubt that WWII K98 rifles exist with various DH markings.

JMHO.
:cool:
 

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I have a theory about these Death's head Lugers. The majority of the ones I've seen, that I thought were legitimate, have these things in common. 1) They all appear to be surplus WW1 pistols or very early 1920 manufacture. 2)The Death's head is always looking "LEFT".
There was an organization started, in Germany in 1919, known as the "Organization Consul" It's mission was, among other things, to assassinate Left wing politicians. In a four year period, it assassinated over 350 people. It's credo was, they wanted men that would obey unconditionally and had no scruples. Their mission statement also said, to maintain arms and act under a military type structure.
These surplus Lugers would have been readily available and cheap. They may have been marked with the Death's head as a way of identifying other members of the hit squads, to each other.
I'm sure there are no documents or bills as proof. This is the type of organization that would not leave a paper trial. Proof might be found in some obscure diary,but I doubt it. These are the type of men that don't leave a paper trail, either.
Pat
 

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I have a theory about these Death's head Lugers. The majority of the ones I've seen, that I thought were legitimate, have these things in common. 1) They all appear to be surplus WW1 pistols or very early 1920 manufacture. 2)The Death's head is always looking "LEFT".
There was an organization started, in Germany in 1919, known as the "Organization Consul" It's mission was, among other things, to assassinate Left wing politicians. In a four year period, it assassinated over 350 people. It's credo was, they wanted men that would obey unconditionally and had no scruples. Their mission statement also said, to maintain arms and act under a military type structure.
These surplus Lugers would have been readily available and cheap. They may have been marked with the Death's head as a way of identifying other members of the hit squads, to each other.
I'm sure there are no documents or bills as proof. This is the type of organization that would not leave a paper trial. Proof might be found in some obscure diary,but I doubt it. These are the type of men that don't leave a paper trail, either.
Pat
I think a couple of them live a few houses down from me.....
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Edward, had I had made up my mind already, I would not had posted on this forum. In that case I would had been satisified with what I stated here and be proud of it. During research I found a lot of controversial discussions, so I shared what I had found and how I got to which assumptions. As a book author and administrator of this forum you should know how to participate in a discussion and not throw arguments such as "you have already made up your mind".

You asked to be convinced of the Gew98 to K98k conversion rifles. Original documents on the SS are very rare. But fortunately many original pictures exist, showing these rifles in usage. I have referred you to various books which contain period pictures that clearly show conversions of Gewehr 98 to K98k and SS soldiers carrying them. Additionally there are enough pictures of SS sniper rifles to be found as well, these pictures without any doubt show Ajack scopes, as well as we know that Ajack in a certain serial range marked all scopes with Deaths Heads under the turret and inscription "SS-Dienstglas". Some of these rifles are even still fully matching numbers, some even with the original scope carrying pouch which is also proofed with original period pictures and the rifles they are matched to are all Deaths Head marked on the barrel shank, and all of them have commercial Suhler firing proofs on bottom of the barrel shank. A friend of mine just recently pulled a rifle from a river when he was searching with a metal detector. Guess what, it had a Deaths Head stamp on the barrel shank.
May I therefore ask in opposite, do you really think that these rifles with Deaths Heads stamps on the barrel are a plot of K98k rifle collectors all over the world which scrub Gewehr 98 receivers, add deaths head stamps and fake commercial proofs on the root of barrels?

Secondly, to owning a proof stamp: this was a single and simple aspect of the whole story. This of course and obviously does not outrule any criminals from owning and applying such a stamp, but at least over here it would get you into serious trouble already owning one of them. But in this context, thanks to 03man who identified my proof as being from Suhl - all of the proofs on the K98k rifles are from Suhl as well.

I would highly appreciate it if the Luger collectors could let me know what they think would had been in the Luger holsters that are shown in period pictures to carry an oversized Deaths Head on the flap and why would the particularily outrule that the holster may had carried a Deaths Head but the pistol surely could not had carried one. Additionally I would kindly want to know why the pistol of mine carry commercial firing proof from Suhl from the pre 1942 period and no serial number on the barrel. To my understanding a military pistol would not had required commercial proofs. Or does anyone in here consider the proof stamps applied to my pistol as fake markings which were added at a much later point?
 

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"I would highly appreciate it if the Luger collectors could let me know what they think would had been in the Luger holsters that are shown in period pictures to carry an oversized Deaths Head on the flap and why would the particularily outrule that the holster may had carried a Deaths Head but the pistol surely could not had carried one.

Additionally I would kindly want to know why the pistol of mine carry commercial firing proof from Suhl from the pre 1942 period and no serial number on the barrel. To my understanding a military pistol would not had required commercial proofs. Or does anyone in here consider the proof stamps applied to my pistol as fake markings which were added at a much later point?"

To the first point,
The DH on the holster indicates nothing about what is inside- could be a DH luger or a "plain" luger.
I'm not sure that anyone here has outruled that such a holster could not have a DH luger inside- if someone posted that notion, I missed it.

To the second point, the Suhl commercial proofing would indicate a pistol that no longer "belongs" to the military. Hundreds if not thousands of lugers were "re-worked" or maybe just re-proved and sold commercially after WWI and before WWII. Your barrel is a barrel produced by Simson, as a spare; then not used/installed as above until post WWI- this commercial use did not require barrel numbering.

To a third point,
I reiterate, there is no doubt that DH rifles exist from the Nazi era that are associated with the SS; however, DH rifles cannot be a justification for the existence of "SS DH lugers" without additional information or known provenance.

A fourth and to me more interesting point,
yours is the first DH luger reported to be found in Europe. All others have been "found" in the US; which in itself is somewhat difficult to explain.



 

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Good morning all,


For me, in the 1930s, Lugers with skulls were assembled, with pieces dating from the imperial period but also with pieces of new manufacture.
I had already shown, a long time ago, on Napca's monthly review, the Automag, a Luger with a skull, owned by a resistance fighter who had recovered it during the German occupation, in France .
It consists of parts from the Erfurt arsenal and parts probably coming from Simson and housed in a holster.
I totally believe in its authenticity ...
Some pictures:
Erfurt Tête de mort n° 2867 i  01.jpg Erfurt Tête de mort n° 2867 i  02.JPG Erfurt Tête de mort n° 2867 i  03.JPG Erfurt Tête de mort n° 2867 i  04.JPG Erfurt Tête de mort n° 2867 i  06.JPG Erfurt Tête de mort n° 2867 i  08.JPG Erfurt Tête de mort n° 2867 i  10.jpg Holster tête de mort  01.jpg Holster tête de mort  02.JPG Holster tête de mort  01.JPG Erfurt Tête de mort n° 2867 i  09 .jpg
 

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I'd like to offer a little proof for my theory.
1st) The "Organization Consul was created and had at it's core, men from the Freicorps unit, "Marinebrigade Ehrhardt.
2nd) This unit's sleeve insignia was a Viking ship, sails billowing, in an oval.
3rd) Here is a picture of an officer of that unit with the Viking sleeve insignia
4th) Below that insignia, on the same sleeve is the Death's head insignia again looking left.
I know that the "Lazy S" is not there. I don't believe this is a lazy S, but the symbol for infinity. The symbol infinity and the Death's Head representing, "Death forever to traitors".
This is circumstantial evidence, to be sure, but men have been hanged on just such evidence.
Pat
 

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03man, thank you for your reply. I fully agree with you that the simple fact a Deaths Head is on a holster does not mean the same symbol to be found on the pistol inside. It however does proof that SS members have had Lugers at a very early stage, at a stage of time where they were not allowed access to Army Luger pistols of current production. This would in my point of view indicate they had to have Lugers from (scrapped) old military production or of commercial origin.
I'm highly thankful for you clearly stating, now already two times in this thread, that for you there is no doubt on Deaths Head marked rifles from this period. From reading old threads of this forum I sometimes had the feeling that these rifles were largely neglected among Luger collectors. You however are fully correct in that the simple existance of these rifle are no justification for pistols with these markings. On the other hand I do not see any reason what would exclude the SS for having Luger pistols, especially since pictures indicate the usage of them already in very early stages:
1st Option: One possibility is that they purchased commercial Luger pistols. This would had been expensive and maybe not enough supply for what they required.
2nd Option: They got fully functional Luger pistols from the Army - what I consider impossible, because they were prohibited access to Army items.
3rd Option: Rework pistols themselves from whatever was at hand, especially guns with damages (like they did with the Gew98 to K98k conversions).

When considering the 3rd option as a possibility, wouldn't you agree that they would had done this in a similar fashion to the Gew98 to K98k conversions? IF they ever did this, I personally would expect them to be done exactly this way, because everything else would differ too much from what is documented and established for their rifles. This therefore not only includes the application of their Deaths Head stamp as a Depot marking, but especially the commercial re-proof of a gun at Suhl.

prairiedogpat, regarding your point #4 or in particular the "Lazy S". Deaths Heads with this "Lazy S" are highly common on Gew98 to K98k reworks. They are to be found in a very certain time frame on rifles reworked by the SS. Not referring to my own pistol, but it would be tough for me to imagine that a particular stamp that is believed to have been used in a very particular time frame in WWI (not based on documentation, but simple by the fact that members of a certain unit had Deaths Heads as symbols on their uniforms) on only a very handful of pistols and not at all on rifles the same units have used, then all of a sudden appear in much larger numbers than on the handful WWI Lugers again on Gew98 to K98k converted rifles which were outcarried by the SS, with additional variations of the identical Deaths head (regarding the symbol above the DH) as well being used by the SS. Wouldn't it on the opposite make more sense that the SS applied these stamps during the timeframe where they reworked old guns, especially if even dimensions and shape of the stamps are identical?
Since you also questioned the meaning of the "lazy S" and assumed it could mean infinity. One of the book authors of the K98k Vol. I to III using the nickname "mrfarb" on his own k98kforum.com mentioned one theory of which I'm quoting an excerpt, that of course should be taken only as a possibility at this point of time:
About the "Lazy S" skull on Gew.98 rifles. I just started a thread today about those. Nobody has documentation to prove anything, but the two main SS depots prior to 1940 were at Dachau (Munich) and Sachsenhausen (Oranienburg). The 2 most common skull markings seen are "Lazy S" and "Gull wing". My theory is the "Lazy S" is Sachsenhausen, which makes sense as it was the main SS depot, right outside of Berlin. The other "Gull Wing" skull marking looks like a flattened "M" - Munich perhaps? It makes total sense that the 2 main depots closely match those markings, but I fully admit my thoughts on that are a work in progress.
Source: http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?35797-Ww1-Death-head-Luger&p=265783&viewfull=1#post265783

Edit: I thought I would also make a cross-reference that it was the same mrfarb who during his research came up with the Küpper-connection on the Kü-marked Luger pistols (see https://luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?43824-K%FC-mystery-answer)
 

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Dave,
I don't know where you got the idea or impression that luger "guys" doubt or questioned the fact that the SS had or used luger pistols.:confused:
That the SS had lugers has never been questioned to my knowledge in any thread or post.

Where the lugers came from is of little consequence, as Germany was "awash" in lugers both in hidden civilian, various Freikorp, and black stocks of the Reichswehr.
And the SS was quite few in numbers in the early days, and not so difficult to arm with pistols.IMO.
After all the much larger(for a long time) SA seemed to have no problem with arms, from pistols to machineguns; all of which would have been available to the SS after the significant
reduction in SA numbers in later years. Just another opinion.

Option 3, as you state, is of course a possibility; but again extending the theory of DH on rifles to "why not on pistols" is no "proof" at all.
If one assumes that the DH was applied in option 3 to the many lugers that were in SS hands; I would expect to find many more DH lugers(in Europe, and in US bring backs) not just the very few
we see today. I would also not expect to find the chamber DH only on WWI vintage lugers, but all dates and mfgs.

Further the size and chamber location is odd, for an acceptance or rework type marking-at least to me- I would expect to find a small DH, or lightning runes near the "normal" proof markings on a luger; which of course is not the case with the DH luger.

Much food for thought and speculation, but I in no way, but with respect for his opinion, subscribe to Pat's explanation of a single unit or of the Lazy S meaning Infinity.
If someone wanted to mean "infinity", they could just as easily use the commonly accepted "lazy 8" symbol. This same explanation of use applies equally to the mfarb theory as mentioned above,
If one wants to represent the "S" and "M" locations why not just use the letter? What is gained by some oddball "stretched M" or "Lazy S"- which by the way is really not an "S" at all. JMHO.
 

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Thank you, Don.

My reasoning behind identifying the symbol in question as infinity rather than a "lazy S" is, these people were heavy into the ancients, the mystic and the occult. This lazy S was one of the first symbols to represent infinity. The core of the Marinebrigade progressed from the Organization Consul to the S.A.and then to the SS. All of these organization loved ancient symbolism.
Pat
 

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The Death Head Luger is a recurring topic, and that is understandable given its mystique and enigmatic origin. I find the connection with the SS very tenuous at best…why adapt a “lazy S” instead of the more logical double S (Schutzstaffel) that is captured perfectly by the double lightning bolt runes (please note that the holster shown by “Kri 1942” has a Death Head with the lightning bolt SS runes, not a “lazy S”!). The notion of an SS connection is further discouraged by the fact that the DH Lugers all bear WWI dates, the latest being 1918 a full 15 years before founding of the Waffen SS on 17 March 1933 (notably without any lazy S in the insignia!). But those who adhere to the SS connection are certainly entitled to their opinion.

My opinion (for what it is worth) places the creation of these Lugers in the Weimar Republic era following WWI. This was a tumultuous time with considerable disorganization and the rise of paramilitary units for defense. In particular I would like to offer the Meinenwerfer Heuschkel Freikorps as the possible progenitor of the DH Luger. Some time ago Klaus Mersbach kindly sent me the following information:

“Heuschkel, was a Lt. in the Posensches Pionier Bataillon Nr.29 and was promoted to Hauptmann by the end of WWI. After the armistice he formed the Minenwerfer-Detachment Heuschkel of the Freikorps. The detachment was composed of: Stab, 3 MW-Komps. (8 light M.W. and 4 heavy.M.G.), 1 M.G.K. and 1 Flamethrower platoon, 14 officers and 183 men.
Employment: Berlin.
Insignia: Death's Head on left upper sleeve.
Hauptmann Heuschkel was reassigned into the Weimar Reichswehr.
Source, Feldgrau (by Peter Wacker a dear friend of mine who just passed away recently) and Ehrenrangliste Vol.II.”

The flamethrower was the brainchild of Richard Fiedler, a 1900 mechanical engineer in Berlin. The potential of this weapon was recognized by Hauptmann Bernard Reddemann, formerly from Posen but subsequently accepted the position of “Fire Chief Dr. Reddemann” in Leipzig. Reddemann, as an engineer, soldier, and professional firefighter determined that the firefighting “steam pumper” could be modified to discharge flammable liquids as a flame thrower and coordinated with Fiedler in its development. Subsequently, Hauptmann Reddemann became commander of the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Company of the Pioneer Battalion No. 29 (the same battalion as Heusckel!). Flamethrowers were first used (unsuccessfully) in combat at Bagatelle-Pavillion in the Argonne on October 4, 1914. On October 10, 1914 Reddemann petitioned the High Command for the creation of a flamethrower unit. He was successful, and in WWI the men of the Garde Reserve Pioner Regiment, AKA the “Totenkopf Pionere” or “Deathshead Pioneers” included flamethrower units. (Source: German Flamethrower Pioneers of World War I, Thomas Wictor, 2007)

After cessation of the hostilities of WWI and formation of the Freikorps, Heuschkel created the paramilitary detachment “Minenwerfer Heuschkel” and he obviously retained his affinity for the Death Head as evidenced by the “MWH” sleeve insignia of his detachment (noted in the quotation by Mersbach above and not to be confused with the embroidered DH insignia on the cuff of the dress tunic of the Pioneer units). This sleeve badge is very rare and I am fortunate to own one.

The existence of flame thrower units during the Weimar era is documented in a well-known photo taken in Berlin during the Kapp Putsch of 13 March 1920.
It is not a great leap of logic to suggest that the Death Head symbol of the MWH sleeve badge was extended to the chamber marking of Lugers carried by Heuschkel’s troops of the flammenwerfer platoon with the addition of surmounting the “lazy S” to represent the pattern of a flamethrower while advancing on enemy positions.

I own a 1913 DWM Luger with the “Lazy S Death Head” chamber marking that I purchased in 1970 from a plumber in New Jersey. At that time Death Head Lugers were a little-known variant, and the chamber marking on my gun is identical to the marking illustrated by Fred Datig in his “The Luger Pistol”revised edition of 1958. This was long before the variant was common knowledge and subject to fakery. I also have an accompanying holster with the same marking. The holster is a Weimar era conversion of the original WWI army holster made by Otto Sindel in 1916 Berlin. The holster has been modified to add a provision for a cleaning rod and is marked with a Weimar type unit designation “5./A.R.2.15.”, which I think represents the “Fifth Artillery Battalion, Second Battery, weapon number 15”. Just as the original 1916 Army holster was “repurposed” for a Weimar unit use, I suspect it was also subsequently subsumed by the Death Head unit.

So, while totally devoid of corroborating documentation (as are all other guesses concerning this Luger variant) it is my theory that it is a Weimar Freikorps Flammenwerfer issue…and I am sticking to it! :)
Ron
 

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Ron,

If we didn't have this enormous enigma to ponder, what would we do with our lives?:rolleyes: Here's another picture to ponder.
Pat
 

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Interesting that none of those "flaming bomb" stamps match the early DWM pattern. I suppose that after this post that will be "corrected". :p
Ron
 

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Interesting that none of those "flaming bomb" stamps match the early DWM pattern. I suppose that after this post that will be "corrected". :p
Ron
Ron,
Great write up on the possible Weimar connection; which I like since I agree with it. :)

I suspect those flaming bombs are meant for US arms, not lugers; in addition to the "bomb" you mention not being a "bomb", the ones shown are much too large. JMHO.
 
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