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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I just bought a Luger DWM 1914 commercial No. 71452 with two commercial magazines in a AWM Holster marked AWM 3 - 11.
The pistol shows very little use. The Holster is marked as you can see in one picture. The first part is very simple:
Name: Sittig
Unit: 7th Chevauleger Regiment (Prince Alfons)
but I do not know what the rest of the inscription in the holster means. Has anyone a good idea???
A happy New Year
P. Schueren

P1010060.jpg P1010069.jpg P1010070.jpg P1010072.jpg P1010059.jpg
 

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A wonderful gun and holster! That is a difficult variation to find. It is interesting that the serial number is very close to my "1913" Commercial with grip safety, #71247. Both probably made the same week.
 

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It is amazing that two guns made within the same week would have different grip safeties. It is a substantial modification, isn' it? Perhaps were not made within the same week or year?
Boris
 

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It is amazing that two guns made within the same week would have different grip safeties. It is a substantial modification, isn' it? Perhaps were not made within the same week or year?
Boris
Both variations are quite scarce and, yes, they were made in the same year. Even though it as known as a "1914 Commercial" both variations most likely were made in late 1913. The "1913 Commercial" was manufactured with a grip safety, it is not a modification.
 

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Ron,

I understand. My question was rather why commercial pistols, made practically within the same week and using the same production sequence should have different safeties? Unless of course this is the same week when one was phased out…
Boris
 

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Here is my 1914 commercial,,,at the very end of the commercial run 75519....about 1917 by the look of the wood and side plate maching being rough. Bore looks like it never had fire in it:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Please have look at this picture... and for once forget about those beautiful Lugers... click on it to enlarge....
Peter
P1010059.jpg
 

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Ron,

I understand. My question was rather why commercial pistols, made practically within the same week and using the same production sequence should have different safeties? Unless of course this is the same week when one was phased out…
Boris
They are commercial guns made to attract sales, not to satisfy a government contract. You could have them with or without grip safties. Grip safety guns were made long after 1913, even some 1920 Commercials.

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Please have look at this picture... and for once forget about those beautiful Lugers... click on it to enlarge....
Peter
View attachment 101564
I did enlarge the photo when you first posted it. I have no idea what "15 III MAA" designates. I am hoping someone else can provide an answer.
 

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Here is my 1914 commercial,,,at the very end of the commercial run 75519....about 1917 by the look of the wood and side plate maching being rough. Bore looks like it never had fire in it:)
Mark,
Actually, your Luger is an example of the rather scarce Basel Police contract of 1921. This run of guns probably was produced in 1919 and were the last of the 1914 Commercial configuration before the beginning of the 1920 5-digit serial number guns.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Let me try to explain my great curiosity...(verging on forgetting my manners...)
I bought the rig (pistol, 2 period commercial magazines and tool and this Bavarian Holster from 1911 - AWM 3-11) quite cheap so the story is probably no sales-trick. This is the story: The original owner was a pilot in WWI... The only SITTIG named pilot cam from the 2. Chevauleger Regiment, was born in 1891 and died in 1916.
OK I know that this is thin ice... but it would be great fun to find out who owned this rig...
Lt. SITTIG, Gustav *23.7.1891 Weiden, died 10.10.1916 near Abancourt, Unit: KG 6/Kstff. 34

Peter
 

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http://denkmalprojekt.org/2010/vl_kgl-bay_7_chevaulegers-reg_wk1.htm
Sittig scheint den Krieg unbeschadet überlebt zu haben; zumindest ist er in der Verlustliste nicht aufgeführt.
Wegen der Waffennummer bin ich mir sicher, dass er (zumindest 1914) Offizier beim Regiment war, wenn denn Tasche und Waffe überhaupt zusammen gehören.
Ich würde mir eine Regimentsgeschichte zulegen. Da sollte zumindest sein Name auftauchen.
15 III. MAA kann ich leider auch nicht deuten. MAA taucht in Verbindung mit Truppenstempeln nur bei der Marine auf- Zusammenhänge sehe ich hier nicht, zumal Sittig die Daten handschriftlich unter den Deckel geschrieben hat.
 

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Interessant ist u.U. der erwähnte Schraubenzieher- den meisten Sammlern wird er wohl nicht viel sagen, aber ich erkenne da vielleicht Zusammenhänge.

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Viele der Piloten des Ersten Weltkrieges kamen aus dem Bereich der Kavallerie, insbedondere von den Husaren - da ist das Eis vielleicht gar nicht mal so dünn und der handschriftliche Eintrag hat etwas mit der Fliegerei zu tun...
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
The tool is unmarked and the early type.
As I said: There was a Lt. Sittig in the 2. Ch R.
I will try the Museum in Ingolstadt for some Information.

Still there is something behind the 7 Ch R...that looks like 1911 but could also be / 9/1. and the last line could also be 15 Z M A..

tricky....
But thank you for your help!
Peter
 

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Mark,
Actually, your Luger is an example of the rather scarce Basel Police contract of 1921. This run of guns probably was probably produced in 1919 and were the last of the 1914 Commercial configuration before the beginning of the 1920 5-digit serial number guns.
Ron,
Once again you surprise me...I know nothing about this contract...great to know this...wish I knew more...where are the book references? The Borchart books show 1914 commercials made up until 75900 in late 1916. But this is a Police contract...would like to know the story behind this contract. Although I did wonder how the rough side-plate machining and the spotty blue reminded me exactly of my 1920 commercial finishes....now it all fits together.
 

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Again..thats explains what I was seeing...
my 75519 did not look like my 1916 imperial luger...i mean the machining...instead it looked exactly like my 1920 era commercial in machine marks and the thinner, more copper sheen of the bluing. Where is the data on the Basil contract? Where does this info come from..how is it that I never heard of this contract ...I thought I knew everything there was to know...this is very disturbing...how is it that I keep discovering the largeness of my ignorance?

So its a DWM made Swiss luger!
 

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Man now I need a Basil holster? Anybody???
 

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Basel police Lugers: serial numbers reported: 75441-76074

pages 255, 256, 257 Jan C. Still, "Weimar And Early Nazi Lugers" 1993
 
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