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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Revised: added Finnish info request 06/29/07--DG

Since there has been some activity in this thread from new members, I thought I'd revise this headline post in order to make things a little easier to comprehend.

I am engaged in a long-term project to produce a database of known DWM Commercial Lugers and some of their important characteristics, from the 1900 Old Model guns all the way through the end of DWM production in 1929.

The database is available for download by going here: http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14292

The data I seek is comprehensive. Here is what I am looking for:

1900 (Old Model):
*serial number
*variation
...Commercial (blank chamber)
...AE (American Eagle on chamber)
...Swiss Commercial (Swiss cross-in-starburst on chamber, c/BUG proofs)
*proof marks, left receiver and barrel
...crown over B,U,G
...no proof marks
*Swiss cross + on barrel?
*grip safety
...narrow N (extends halfway across grip strap)
...wide W (extends full width of grip strap)
*Thumb safety type
...type 1, flat-checkered
...type 2, raised-checkered
...type 3, raised-ridged (fluted)
*Where is the takedown lever numbered?
...right, round end R
...left face F
...bottom edge B
*Stamped GERMANY or not?
*Any additional noteworthy characteristics

1902:
*serial number
*variation
...Commercial (blank chamber)
...AE (American Eagle on chamber)
...Carbine
*proof marks, left receiver and barrel
...crown over B,U,G
...no proof marks
*grip safety
...narrow N (extends halfway across grip strap)
...wide W (extends full width of grip strap)
*Stamped GERMANY or not?
*Carbine stock (if present)
...one-screw or two-screw?
...matching?
*Any additional noteworthy characteristics

1906 (New Model):
*serial number
*variation
...Commercial (blank chamber)
...AE (American Eagle on chamber)
...Swiss Commercial (Swiss cross-in-starburst on chamber, c/BUG or c/N proofs)
...Navy Commercial
*proof marks, left receiver
...crown over B,U,G
...crown over N, lazy (on its side) or upright
...no proof marks
*Caliber .30 or 9mm?
*Thumb safety stamped GESICHERT or polished?
*Extractor stamped GELADEN or LOADED?
*Stamped GERMANY or not?
*long frame or short?
*thumb safety area stamped GESICHERT or SAFE?
*Any additional noteworthy characteristics or unusual variation (French, etc.)?

1908 (no stock lug):
*serial number
*proof marks, left receiver
...crown over B,U,G
...crown over N, lazy (on its side) or upright
*Stamped GERMANY or not?
*Recoil spring well spur or straight? (see http://luger.gunboards.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6214&SearchTerms=spur )
*c/X c/X c/X military proofs?
*Any additional noteworthy characteristics

20DWM (with stock lug) (previously known as 1923 Commercial) (includes 1914 Commercial variation)
*serial number
*proof marks, left receiver
...crown over N, lazy (on its side)
...crown over N, upright
*c/X c/X c/X military proofs?
*Caliber .30 or 9mm?
*Sear bar
...full-length
...relieved
*Export marked?
...GERMANY
...MADE IN GERMANY
...location of stamp
...not marked
*Chamber marked?
...none
...date
...American Eagle stamp
*A.F. Stoeger inscription?
...2-line
...3-line
*Safe/Loaded?
*Police characteristics
...sear safety
...magazine safety
...police unit mark
*Any additional noteworthy characteristics

*All 5-digit marked magazines, whether they are with a gun or not.

Alphabet Commercial (previously known as 1920 Commercial) and
29 DWM (previously known as DWM/Mauser Sneak)
*serial number, with letter suffix
*proof marks, left receiver--crown over N, upright? Cc/U?
*right receiver proofs?
*blank toggle?
*Caliber .30 or 9mm?
*Export marked?
...GERMANY
...MADE IN GERMANY
...location of stamp
...not marked
*Krieghoff Suhl back-frame marked?
*Chamber marked?
...none
...date
...American Eagle stamp
*Finnish Suome Armijnen M-23
...S.A marked left receiver
...Tikka barrel 4-inch? 5-inch?
...9mm or .30?
...unit mark grip medallion?
*A.F. Stoeger inscription?
...2-line
...3-line
*Safe/Loaded?
*Blank toggle? DWM toggle?
*Eagle/WaA right receiver proof?
*Police characteristics
...sear safety
...magazine safety
...police unit mark
*Any additional noteworthy characteristics

1920 Carbine
*Serial number (with suffix, if present)
...matching or not?
*Caliber
*Proof marks
*Barrel
...Carbine barrel
...Long barre and length
*Sight
...Carbine sight
...Artillery sight
*Grip safety?
*Forend accellerator spring?
*Frame
...long
...short
*GERMANY export mark?
*Stock matching?
*Any additional noteworthy characteristics

If anyone has a Commercial DWM Luger they have not yet reported, I'd appreciate knowing the details. Post your info here, or email me [email protected] . As usual, I will keep sources confidential if requested.

Thanks again to everybody who has sent me info so far, and thanks in advance for the new info.

--Dwight
 

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QUOTE: "First off, the survey now extends through the end of the 5-digit serial# Commercial series. For these pistols I am looking for: the model e.g. P-08 Commercial . . ."

Dwight,

I have 1908 Commercial DWM, SN59281, purchased from Ralph Shattuck when I first started collecting. No chamber date, lazy C/N.

Also have 1908 Commercial DWM, SN70801, a mixed parts shooter, but the frame and barrel are both marked 70801 with the proper halo around the barrel SN. No chamber date, lazy C/N.

I, for one, am really looking forward to the publication of your database. I think it will be very useful. If I can be of any help, please contact me.

Luke
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Luke,

Thanks much for the info. I have 59281 from another database, but the proof information is new.

Ed,

No, I am really intending to cut this off at the end of the 5-digit series. It is a logical category, and I am trying to maintain -some- sanity here!

--Dwight
 
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Hi Dwight,
I live in France and I own a 1908 Commercial Luger.
# 60067 - No chamber date. Lazy Crowned N.
All numbers match except for wooden mag. Never reblued.

I have just a question : does wood grips have to be marked with # or not? Mine are not.

Thanks,
François
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
François,

Merçi beaucoup, and welcome to the Forum. I am not sure about the grip numbers, it is something I have not attention to as I should. I expect that others on the forum can give a better answer.

--Dwight
 
G

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Dwight,
I just sent you an email on my Luger. Serial #69252
I hope that it helps.
like I stated on my email, any info would be appreaciated.
I ask that you email me back, because I tend to forget to check the Luger Forum site sometimes.
Thanks again.
Eric M.

Hello Francois,
I have no numbers on my wooden grips. Our Lugers have very close serial numbers.
Any info that you have on our pistols would make me very happy.
Eric M.
 
G

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Hello Eric,
Not a lot of extra info on my 1908 commercial.
All numbers match, but no # on grips, nor on magazine.
German geladen and gesichert markings.
I think it has been made circa 1913, but I'm not sure.

Here are three bad pics... :



Download Attachment: 1908 com.JPG
37.6KB




Download Attachment: Luger 1908 commercial.jpg
56.82KB


Download Attachment: 1908 com1.JPG
80.92KB


I hope they will be useful.. :)

François
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Don,

Thanks for the new numbers, as well as some new details on current entries. If I could trouble you for some additional data--

7663 is this gun stamped GERMANY? where is the takedown lever numbered?

27887 could you confirm that this is a Navy Commercial? any chance there is a matching stock??

34233 could you confirm that this is a Commercial, not an AE? is it stamped GERMANY?

Thanks very much for the addtional look.

--Dwight
 

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Don, "by rights" the only accepted tests are 6100-7100 serial range. There is much discussion on "out of range" Test Lugers, I own 7759 and it displays all the charectoristics of a test, but it does not fall into the 'accepted" Bannerman range.

Makes for an interesting discussion...

Ed


PS: I have in my records for my wife when I kick the ole bucket;

"sn 7759, Test Luger, out of range example"
 
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