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Michael/KG,
* FYI.
* Picture of a(nother) DWM shown in Edward C. Ezell's Handguns of the World, Pg. 257, Fig.5-57. Caption reads: "The 7.65mm Browning caliber DWM pistol, which was a close copy of the Modele 1910 FN Browning. This pistol has an 88-millimeter barrel for a total length of 153 millimeters, and it weighs 573 grams(Krcma)."
* Grips have no LOGO shown.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Douglas Jr., Pancho and RockinWR,

Thank you for the contributions... I can see why this message board has such a great reputation!

Pancho,</u>
I certainly understand your point from a historical perspective, but cannot/will not part with my Dad's DWM due to its sentimental value, and have no interest in obtaining the one owned by onaway.

However, assuming all things being equal (all Original Equipment Manufactured), it seems that onaway's S/N #710 (Model 22) and my S/N #711 (Model 23) do indeed mark a watershed for DWM.


RockinWR,</u>
Very interesting, indeed. However, from A. B. Zhuk's "The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Handguns, Pistols and Revolvers of the World, 1870 of the Present" (Item #1782 on page 215)...

DWM; Berlin-Karlsruher Industrie-Werke (formerly Deutsche Waffen-und Munitionsfabriken), Berlin, 1922-8. 7.65mm Auto; 154mm overall, 89mm barrel, 580gm. Seven rounds. Copied from the 1910-pattern FN-Browning, this was modifed slightly in 1923 and remained available into the 1930's. Production is said to have ceased when Fabrique Nationale threatened to sue for patent infringement.
(Illustration shows DWM on the grips).
 

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Michael,

I have been looking at your post on and off (the one of the pics of your gun) and notice what looks like a series letter underneat your serial number. Is that what is present there or is it another kind of mark, Crown or?? I cant really make it out. If it is a series or sub-letter such as #711 c or 711 a then perhaps our guns are NOT sequential and only a coincidence that they appear to be so.

This would explain why my plain #710 with checkered wood grips (an early gun that SHOULD have the wood grip) is different from your #711 (sub letter?) which would make it a much later gun and therefore the plastic grips should be present per the informative posts on the history of this gun.

What do you think?

Regards

Keith
 

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Michael,
* Okay. Found another DWM pistol reference & picture. Possibly a predicessor to Douglas's reference. In the 1971 Stackpole published "German Pistols and Revolvers, 1871-1945", Pg.29 by Ian V. Hogg. Library of Congress Catelog Card # 74-29815 & ISBN: 0-88365-299-4.
* Contains an elementary breakdown of the demographics of this design. That is: Make, Caliber, Method of Op., Safety, Mag, Capacity, Markings, etc.
* You'll get a kick out of the listed O/All Length as 6.0"/152mm, Bbl. length as 3.5"/88mm, 6 grooves-R/H twist, and an empty weight of 20.0 oz./0.57kg. Either we're talking allowable Mfg. tolerances, round-off, & measuring instrument allowable error or someone isn't hitting the re-zero button before measuring/weighing.
* Picture shows an example with what appears to be the early M22 walnut checkered grips w/ No Logo.
* Contains take-down/re-assembly instructions which you have obviously mastered; but, little new additional info.
* Hhhmmmm!! Is that a lower case S/N suffix "a" below your numeric "711" I see in the pictures of your Frame, Barrel, & Slide?? Is Onaway's example also an "a" block?? Maybe we can get Pancho resting easier without medicinal "supliments" if they are 10,000 apart. Then again, maybe not if these are non-Rx supliments taken "on the rocks". Per Jan Still in Weimar Lugers, Vol. V, DWM started to use the suffix block numbering system for commercial Lugers in 1921. Must be a carryover to all the different DWM models (2-3??) produced.
* Enjoy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
RockinWR and onaway,

There is what looks like a stylized lower case "a" under the 711 on the barrel, frame and slide on my DWM. So can someone explain, how there might be a S/N 711, and a S/N 711 a? Could there even be a S/N 711 b... c... d, etc. under this scheme?

Again, it would be really useful to see pictures of onaway's pistol. Is this still possible?

Cheers
Mike O'Driscoll
 

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I think this explains the issue then. The "a" means it is 1,000 or 10,000 away not 1 away in my opinion.

I borrowed a dig camera last night but the battery died in the middle of my using it so I will hopefully get some pics up today of the gun.

Keith
 

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Here finally are some pics of my DWM .32 Ser #710. I hope they are helpful.

I am interested in any thoughts you might have.



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This is the holster it came home in from Germany as a GI souvenir I am told but cannot prove.



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This is a crown N proof on the barrel



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Can anyone advise me on what is to blame for the gun shooting full auto when it gets warm? Is it a sear or trigger issue?

Enjoy

Keith
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Outstanding! Thank you, onaway. I think this really helps document the DWM Pocket Pistol and its history for everyone. Certainly, I have learned a lot from this whole process.

Just one lingering curiosity, DWM's use of the suffix block nomenclature. On 19 November, RockinWR posted...

Per Jan Still in Weimar Lugers, Vol. V, DWM started to use the suffix block numbering system for commercial Lugers in 1921. Must be a carryover to all the different DWM models (2-3??) produced.


Again, this seems to suggest DWM could have produced one pistol with the S/N 711, and a different pistol with the S/N 711 a, and yet another one with the S/N 711 b? Could that be correct?

Could Mr. Still comment on this possibility?

If the scenario of assigning serial numbers by DWM was possible, anyone know how many would have been assigned to suffix block "a" before suffix block "b" might have been initiated?

Thanks again to everyone who has contributed to this discussion.

Michael O’Driscoll
Waunakee, Wisconsin USA
[email protected]
 

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If indeed DWM was employing the same Luger serial number process, each letter suffix indicates an increment of 10,000. However, this assumes that the base serial number consisted of up to four digits, and would depend on how many DWM pocket pistols were produced before advancing to the next letter block. It could represent an increment of only 1,000 if the breakpoint was at 999. Is there any record of DWM pocket pistols with more than 3 digits in the serial number?
 

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Do manufacturers usually reserve a space for digits for a series such as "0009" for a four digit series or would they start 1, 2,3,4 and then reserve with 3 digits like "010" for a 3 digit series??

Or "9" then "10" then "0100" ?

In other words do they assume the popularity and decide ahead of time to use a 3 or 4 digit series and use "0" in front until no longer needed??

Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
On November 21, Ron Wood asked... Is there any record of DWM pocket pistols with more than 3 digits in the serial number?. In fact, there is such a record. Here are some pictures of another DWM (Model 23 variety) with a S/N of four digits and a suffix block </u>that was for auction of www.gunbroker.com which someone e-mailed to me...

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Cheers
Michael O'Driscoll
Waunakee, WI
 

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Imperial Era Military Lugers, Weimar Military and some commercial Lugers and Mauser Military and commercial Lugers were in serial number blocks of 10,000 with letter suffixes. This system was not commonly used on 7.65mm pocket pistols (There are exceptions). It seems odd that such a scarce pistol would have sufficient production to warrent letter suffixes. In all my years of collecting I have only examined one.
Jan
 

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I´m a member of a pistol club here in Berlin. Georg Luger (and his son) were also members (their club was the then famous "Baerenzwinger" - Bear Pit). During research, I found a magazine account of a visit by Prince August Wlihelm where Georg Luger performed a trick shooting series with a pocket pistol. Pocket pistols (called cyclists´s pistols) were popular at the time and used for personal protection.
 

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Michael,
here is the serial number neighbour to your pistol.

It's an opinion that from this weapon allegedly have been produced between 40000 and 50000 pieces.
If this should be correct, one would be able to find this pistol actually much often.
However, it is very rare.
In my opinion the numbering is a trick used by many companies to feign higher production numbers.

Fritz

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I notice this pistol also has the wood checkered grips. So I suspect that Michael's gun had its grips updated or perhaps these guns were sold at the time with an option of grips, either wood or plastic.

Thanks Fritz. Nice looking gun too.

Onaway
 

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So I am wondering if I should leave my DWM in its crappy finish due to neglect in storage or is it ok at this point to go ahead and re-blue? Look at the pics of my gun posted above, would re-bluing ruin any value it may still hold? I've seen very nice examples marked at $1200 or more at gun shows. Is that a fair price for a 95%+ gun???
 

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There is a great difference between "rebluing" and "refinishing." Anyone can reblue a gun, but only an artisan can properly refinish one. In either case, it is almost certain that you will sharply lower the value of your pistol if you alter it in any way, especially the reblue route.
 

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Hi,

A very interesting pistol. I doubt that threats from FN were the reason for DWM to stop production. DWM had owned half of FN until 1918, supplied just about all FN production facilities and machinery. I think DWM felt they had every right to produce an FN copy :)

In 1928, DWM was balancing on the edge of bankruptcy, though.
 
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