Jan C. Still Lugerforums banner

1 - 6 of 6 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,208 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited by Moderator)
Most Luger enthusiasts are familiar with the designation of "Long Frame"� and "Short Frame". The "long"� frame and receiver is 2mm longer than the "short"� frame and receiver, with the extra length occurring in front of the takedown lever. The threaded portion of the long and short frame barrels are also 2mm different in length and therefore are not interchangeable.

However, some beginning Luger fans may not be aware that during early Luger development there were several transition steps from the old model "long"� frame to the new model "short"� frame.

Here are Type categorizations of these transition steps that I have made into a little guide. These are my observations and I am sure this list may not be totally comprehensive and that exceptions do exist (all bets are off on 1920 era Lugers), but it is by and large representative. I welcome any recommended corrections, changes or comments.

Type I - Old model long frame, thick rounded frame and trigger guard the full width of the frame. Type I is found on 1900 military and commercial Lugers, 1900 and 1902 Carbines, some 1902 Prototypes, and the 1904 Navy (with the addition of a stock lug).
Type_1.jpg
Type II - Old model short frame, squared off frame, trigger guard the full width of the frame, and "thin"� frame below the takedown lever (hereinafter referred to as "thin frame"�). Type II is found on 1902 commercial, American Eagle, and test Lugers (Dutch, German, and American Eagle), some 1902 Prototypes, and 1903 Commercial.
Type_2.jpg
Type III - New model long frame, rounded frame with rebated trigger guard (trigger guard machined narrower than the frame). Type III is found on 1906 Navy, early 1906 commercial and American Eagle (some safety marked and some with stock lug), 1906 Swiss (DWM Cross in Sunburst, DWM Cross in Shield and Waffenfabrik Bern produced).
Type_3.jpg
Type IV - New model short frame, squared off thin frame, rebated trigger guard. Type IV is found on early 1906 9mm Lugers (Commercial, American Eagle, Russian) and the 1907 .45 Caliber Test Luger. Also found on 1906 7.65mm Lugers such as: 1906 Bulgarian, M2 Portuguese, some Commercial, and some Swiss.
Type_4.jpg
Type V - New model short frame, squared off thick frame (with the thicker area below the takedown lever), rebated trigger guard. Type V is found on virtually all Lugers produced after 1908, to include commercial and contract Lugers of the 1906 pattern with grip safety.
Type_5.jpg
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,405 Posts
Ron
Excellent presentation. I learned a great deal.

Please explain what the term reinforced frame signifies. I had always assumed that it referred to a slightly thicker rear frame introduced in 1916; however, I recently saw the term related to the year 1912.

Thanks
Jan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,208 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Jan,
To me a "reinforced frame" is as you stated, a slightly thicker rear frame where the rear toggle link contacts in full recoil. I have not heard of the term in conjunction with 1912. I would be interested to hear about the reference you saw.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,405 Posts
Ron
Kenyon mentioned it in reference to the 1910 Erfurt. As I recall, he thought it was important that it didnt have a reinforced frame. I would not expect any Army Luger made before 1916 to have a reinforced frame. I must be missing something here.

I also recently saw it in reference to a 1912 dated Luger on one of the many webb sites that I recently visited. If I can find it I will send you the link.
Jan
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,108 Posts
Ron -

I don't mean to butt in on your excellent 12-1/2 year old illustration thread, but I'm wondering if there is correction or clarification above that needs to be made. You mention that Test Eagles should have a Type II "short squared" frame, but the examples I have seen (including my own "Test Eagle Characteristics" gun #7364) all have a Type I rounded frame. Here is a picture of #6567, from the Bannerman list.

Maybe I'm just misinterpreting what you meant when you said "test Lugers (Dutch, German, and American Eagle)" above.

More views at http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion/hhm70.pl?f=NR_LOT&c=184&t=temartic_P_D&db=kat70_p.txt

View attachment 283425

I also have a followup question... do the different frame lengths results in differences in barrel lengths as measured from the front of the breech block (in the closed position) to the tip of the barrel? It seems there is about a 2mm difference between the "long" and "short" frames.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,208 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
You are correct that the 7.65mm Test Eagles have the Type I frame. If you read my poorly worded description of Type II you will see that the entire sentence starts out with "Type II is found on 1902 commercial, American Eagle, and test Lugers (Dutch, German, and American Eagle)..."
You are also correct about the 2mm difference in frames, and that is what is stated in the first paragraph. I corrected the 1mm typo a long time ago.
Ron
 
1 - 6 of 6 Posts
Top