Joined
·
1,288 Posts
Gentlemen,
regarding the early Sauer model 13 I like to ask for serial number data . What I am after, are technical features/serial numbers of the S&S model 13, 1st variation, transitional sub-variation B.
Some explanations might be helpful:
Sauer 13, 1st var. (sub-variation A or 13-1-A): came out in 1913, SN up to 5,xxx approximately. Some confirmed ones are noted up to 7,2xx approximately (obviously, there was a "mix-up", no clear defined border line between sub-variation A and B can be given). Special features:
1/ additional magazine security with a release button on the left side.
2/ screw cap secured by a spring-loaded pin. This pin has an housing in the breech block and pops through an hole in the screw cap. A channel in the screw cap acts as the rear sight.
3/ a "hump" on the breech block. The hump engages a corresponding recess in the slide and acts as an anti-twist device.
4/ grips do have diamond pattern around the screw
Sauer 13, 2nd var (13-2): production start assumed to be in 1915, SN starting at 8,xxx approximately, goes to 13x,xxx. The most common variation of the Sauer 13. Features:
1/ no mag security button.
2/ screw cap secured with an hinged leaf spring, to which a rear sight is attached (later post WWI items: not hinged)
3/ blind hole in the end wall of the breech block (where the securing screw for the spring-loaded spring was on 1st var.)
4/no hump on breech block, but the recess in the slide still is present.
5/ grips have S&S logo in oval.
Recently, I acquired what I call a transitional 1st variation, or a 1st variation, sub-variation B. These are quiet rare and only few are know to Jim Cate and me. The first known (probably a pre-production prototype) is shown in the standard Sauer 13 manual and has SN 3391 and diamond pattern grips. Less than ten confirmed ones are known to Jim, and we were unable to locate any publications/documentation regarding this "mule" version.
Sauer 13, 1st var., sub-variation B (transitional or 13-1-B) . Features:
1/addtional magazine security with an release button on the left side (like a "true" 1st var.)
2/ screw cap secured with an hinged leaf spring, to which a real rear sight is attached (like a "true" 2nd variation)
3/ no hump on breech block, but the recess in the slide still is present (like "true" 2nd var.)
Surprisingly, my "mule" SN 6439 (all matching numbers) has some features, we haven't seen before on other Sauer 13s:
4/ breech block has a trough-hole in the end wall
5/ breech block has a channel, in which
6/ a hook type extension of the leaf spring engages.
Our assumption presently is, the combination of features 5 and 6 shall operate as an anti-twist device also.
Shown hereinafter are some photos of SN 6439, as well as some comparing photos with breech blocks of a 1st variation A SN 2475 and 2nd var SN 78,872, as well as of the slides (with leaf spring fully pulled up) of # 6439 and 78,872 showing the hook type extension and the flat type of the 2nd var., respectively.
Lloyd in Vegas and Orv Reichert already posted photos of 1st and 2nd variations (neat ones!), so anybody who wants to look at them to compare:
http://www.gunboards.com/luger/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1241
# 6439 came with grips of the 2nd variation, but I don't know, if the grips originally came with this pistol or with a 2nd variation.
And now for my questions:
Has anybody a 13-1-B or a 13-2 having the same breech block features? Any other "mule" 13-1-B pistols/SNs known? Any 13-1-As known having serial numbers higher than 5,xxx ? IF other transitional Sauers are known: which grips do they have?
Any comments are welcome!
By the way: no 1st variation Sauer 13 is known, having an Imperial Army acceptance marking. The reason is quiet simple: the Imperial Army did not accept the Sauer having the odd magazine security. So, Sauer changed the design exactly for this reason. And Sauer got the Army contract with the 2nd variation.
Martin
Download Attachment:
13-I-B-6439-LS2d.jpg
265.45KB
left side view of Sauer 13 SN 6439
Download Attachment: Comp_Breech_Block_Rear.jpg
66.56 KB
Rear views of breech blocks of 2nd var., 1st B var and 1st A var. Note screw and spring-loaded pin on 1st A variation
Download Attachment: Comp_Breech_Block_Top.jpg
126.45 KB
Download Attachment: Comp_Rear_sights.jpg
175.82 KB
regarding the early Sauer model 13 I like to ask for serial number data . What I am after, are technical features/serial numbers of the S&S model 13, 1st variation, transitional sub-variation B.
Some explanations might be helpful:
Sauer 13, 1st var. (sub-variation A or 13-1-A): came out in 1913, SN up to 5,xxx approximately. Some confirmed ones are noted up to 7,2xx approximately (obviously, there was a "mix-up", no clear defined border line between sub-variation A and B can be given). Special features:
1/ additional magazine security with a release button on the left side.
2/ screw cap secured by a spring-loaded pin. This pin has an housing in the breech block and pops through an hole in the screw cap. A channel in the screw cap acts as the rear sight.
3/ a "hump" on the breech block. The hump engages a corresponding recess in the slide and acts as an anti-twist device.
4/ grips do have diamond pattern around the screw
Sauer 13, 2nd var (13-2): production start assumed to be in 1915, SN starting at 8,xxx approximately, goes to 13x,xxx. The most common variation of the Sauer 13. Features:
1/ no mag security button.
2/ screw cap secured with an hinged leaf spring, to which a rear sight is attached (later post WWI items: not hinged)
3/ blind hole in the end wall of the breech block (where the securing screw for the spring-loaded spring was on 1st var.)
4/no hump on breech block, but the recess in the slide still is present.
5/ grips have S&S logo in oval.
Recently, I acquired what I call a transitional 1st variation, or a 1st variation, sub-variation B. These are quiet rare and only few are know to Jim Cate and me. The first known (probably a pre-production prototype) is shown in the standard Sauer 13 manual and has SN 3391 and diamond pattern grips. Less than ten confirmed ones are known to Jim, and we were unable to locate any publications/documentation regarding this "mule" version.
Sauer 13, 1st var., sub-variation B (transitional or 13-1-B) . Features:
1/addtional magazine security with an release button on the left side (like a "true" 1st var.)
2/ screw cap secured with an hinged leaf spring, to which a real rear sight is attached (like a "true" 2nd variation)
3/ no hump on breech block, but the recess in the slide still is present (like "true" 2nd var.)
Surprisingly, my "mule" SN 6439 (all matching numbers) has some features, we haven't seen before on other Sauer 13s:
4/ breech block has a trough-hole in the end wall
5/ breech block has a channel, in which
6/ a hook type extension of the leaf spring engages.
Our assumption presently is, the combination of features 5 and 6 shall operate as an anti-twist device also.
Shown hereinafter are some photos of SN 6439, as well as some comparing photos with breech blocks of a 1st variation A SN 2475 and 2nd var SN 78,872, as well as of the slides (with leaf spring fully pulled up) of # 6439 and 78,872 showing the hook type extension and the flat type of the 2nd var., respectively.
Lloyd in Vegas and Orv Reichert already posted photos of 1st and 2nd variations (neat ones!), so anybody who wants to look at them to compare:
http://www.gunboards.com/luger/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1241
# 6439 came with grips of the 2nd variation, but I don't know, if the grips originally came with this pistol or with a 2nd variation.
And now for my questions:
Has anybody a 13-1-B or a 13-2 having the same breech block features? Any other "mule" 13-1-B pistols/SNs known? Any 13-1-As known having serial numbers higher than 5,xxx ? IF other transitional Sauers are known: which grips do they have?
Any comments are welcome!
By the way: no 1st variation Sauer 13 is known, having an Imperial Army acceptance marking. The reason is quiet simple: the Imperial Army did not accept the Sauer having the odd magazine security. So, Sauer changed the design exactly for this reason. And Sauer got the Army contract with the 2nd variation.
Martin
Download Attachment:
13-I-B-6439-LS2d.jpg265.45KB
left side view of Sauer 13 SN 6439
Download Attachment:
Comp_Breech_Block_Rear.jpg66.56 KB
Rear views of breech blocks of 2nd var., 1st B var and 1st A var. Note screw and spring-loaded pin on 1st A variation
Download Attachment:
Comp_Breech_Block_Top.jpg126.45 KB
Download Attachment:
Comp_Rear_sights.jpg175.82 KB
