[Guest]

I have seen this Navy on AuctionArms before and thought about buying it. However, with the discussion about fakes, I have been leery. As a shooter, it has a poor bore and I doubt it has any true collector interest because it is admittedly refinished. On the other hand, if it is genuine Navy I think it may still be a good buy. Any thoughts anyone on whether genuine? And more importantly, if a fake is it a good buy?

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=6182574

 

[Dwight Gruber]

OPINION

If it is a fake it is a -terrible- buy.

Ask to see better, closeup pictures of the chamber marks and the 1917s on the frame and sight base (then post them here).

Ask to see pictures of all the marks on the barrel.

Ask to see a picture of the mag follower, look for 87 years of wear on it's surface (the magazine looks like a made-up mag).

Even though the toggle pin may be a small-head, ask for a picture to see if the barrel exetnsion itself is relieved for the large head.

If they will not send you the pictures, run away.

Even if it is real, the starter is not a bargain price and the buy-it-now seems pretty steep.

How often have you seen a real Navy for sale at this price?

How badly do you want one?

OPINION OFF

--Dwight

 

[Jan C Still]

Macpuma
I agree with Dwight, it is a terrible buy.
The seller states that the "Rear toggle pin is SN#51" and small head. The practice of numbering the rear toggle pin did not start until 1932. Original 1917 Dated Imperial Navies have the large flange pin.
Jan

 

[Guest]

Here are pictures that the seller sent me. He said that he got the gun in estate sale. It was pitted when he got it and he refinished it. Bore is very poor -- 6" groups at 25 yds. Wish it was a better shooter. I would be interested in seeing an analysis if it is a fake.


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[garfield]

quote:Originally posted by Macpuma
I would be interested in seeing an analysis if it is a fake.

What type of analysis do you have in mind? These pictures are not only of poor quality, the seller does not show vitial data. The numbers used to stamp the "1917" date on the frame and the manner in which it is done does not appear correct. Also, from what I can see, the proofs and acceptance do not appear correct and those on the barrel appear to be missing. I suppose that it could be argued that this piece has been so heavily buffed that most of these marking went "south". In any event, it is in such poor shape that one wonders why a person would want it.

 

[Policeluger]

I have done part of the work on this Luger in my shop, let me assure you it is a true shooter grade, it is not a fake, but it does have some small parts added as they were missing when the shop selling the gun got it in part is a lager estate they are selling off. The shop selling the gun, and it was in very poor condition, glass bead blasted and hot blued the gun, I strawed the small parts, got most of the small missing parts from Tom Heller, put the gun together and test fired it. It is nothing more than a very poor gun refinished, I will put my word of honor on it that nothing was restamped/bolsted/faked or anything else then restored to a shooter, and was someone expecting more for $1,400..? NOTHING was buffed, either by us or anyone else, I have had dealing with the selling shop for near 30 years, very honest and do not need to fake a gun to make a buck, you have completelt ingnored there years of seller feed back, a 1000+ and 100% positive...again it is a true shooter grade gun, as for selling price, that is up to you and what you care to spend. Please email me if you have additional questions, I have no $$ interest in this gun, just in the truth.

 

[garfield]

Policeluger:

I do not know how I could have ignored 30 years of seller feedback as I have no idea who you or the shop who picked up this pistol are. My comments were based on the pictures posted on this site. I stand by my comments other than to change the wording from "so heavily buffed" to "so heavily bead blasted".

Frankly, also never have heard of a "true" shooter grade gun. If I ever wanted one I know that I would not pay your "buy it now" price for one of this quality with a poor bore.

 

[Policeluger]

garfield...it is not my "buy it now price"....it is not my gun, nor do I have an interest in seeing it sold, also have no idea how you can call it a "heavy bead blasted", as you did not see it being blasted, and it was a very light cleaning just to remove the pits and allow for blue finish without continued rusting. All proofs are correct, but true, pictures are of a poor quality, for one wanting a shooter, it is still regardless of you opinion, a shooter. Try buying a frame, 2 position original sight and so forth to build a shooter, see what the cost will be. In my wording of a "true" shooter, I was try to say that it was not faked or bolstered, just a true mixed small parts, re-blued gun for shooter purpose only....does anyone see investment quality here??? for sure the seller does not. macpuma,I hope you see this gun for what it is, try building one cheaper, I have shot this one several times, a real nice gun, not investment grade, but not priced so either.

 

[garfield]

Policeluger:

OK, I'm convinced.