[Darwin]

I know the Germans didn't like the mag safety and stopped including them in the assembly of the FN High Power but somebody on Gunboards now seems to believe the Germans did the same thing with the FN 1922. http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=36664
Is this a known fact that I have just never heard about before? Only one of my pistols was missing the mag safety when I acquired it but it was also missing the mag safety pin and the sear pin so I had always assumed the parts had been scavenged from it. Do any of you own FN 1922's that are missing the mag safety?

 

[Glocksmith]

I would tend to think not, as the magazine safety on the 1910/22 is an integral part of the firing mechanism, and is not as easy to deactivate as on the High Power. But I could be wrong....

However, both of my very late war M1922's have magazine safeties.

 

[Darwin]

Actually, it does function without the mag safety. I have just removed the mag safety from one of mine just to test it. What the mag safety does is block the grip safety when the magazine is not in. When the grip safety can't be depressed then it blocks the trigger sear. Take out the mag safety and then the grip safety can be depressed without the magazine in the gun.

 

[Glocksmith]

Darwin, you are correct, of course. I said previously that I could be wrong....<G>...and I was. (For some reason I was thinking of the action on a Mauser M1914.)

On reexamination of my pistols this morning I find that one of my M22's (serial number 81457b - Waa140 marked) does NOT have a magazine safety. However my other late-war M22 (34567a) DOES has a mag safety fitted. I would assume the Germans simply used the mag safety until wartime pressures demanded that manufacturing shortcuts be made.

What do you think?

 

[Darwin]

That is very possible. On the pistol lacking the magazine safety, is the pin there but the safety is not or is the pin missing too? If the pin is missing is the hole there for the mag safety or was no hole drilled? I don't know if we'll ever know the answer as to why some have mag safeties and some do not. I suppose it is also possible that the mag safety was unpopular among those who were issued the pistol and they subsequently removed removed the safety themselves.

Now you got me thinking about my pistol again. I have one, 80490a, that, as mentioned previously, was missing the mag safety and pin and was also missing the sear pin. I had always assumed that all those parts had been scavenged by somebody who had then unloaded the pistol. Earlier today when I had disassembled a different pistol, the sear pin fell out of its own accord. I wonder now if the previous owner of 80490a had removed the grips and the sear pin fell out and he wasn't able to find it? I would have thought the previous owner had been totally unaware but the sear spring had been manipulated to hold the trigger bar and sear in place without the pin (the left fork put in front of the trigger bar and the right fork behind the sear). So, maybe mine did not originally have a mag safety. Hmmm...

 

[mas]

Gentlemen,
I'm the guy that posed this question over at Gunboards last evening.
There is little doubt in my mind that the mag safety was intentionally left out at some point in the war-time production series. One of my FN1922s, WaA140 marked, s/n 38406c, is not even drilled in the frame to mount the mag safety cross pin.
The question now is: Just where did this start? I would appreciate hearing about other WaA140 pieces. What serial no. are they and do they have the mag safety installed.

Mike

 

[Glocksmith]

On my pistol lacking the magazine safety there is no pin hole in the frame. So it would be safe to assume that the magazine safety was intentionally deleted in production. The question of course is WHEN. You got me curious, so I got out some of my reference books and tried to see if I could find out if the magazine safety was deleted within a specific serial number range - no luck. I refered to the following :

"German Small Arms" - AJR Cormack
"FN Browning, Armorer to the World" - G. Gangarosa
"German Handguns" - I. Hogg
"Belgian Browning Pistols" - A. Vanderlinden
"Handguns of the World" - Ezell
"The Handgun" - Boothroyd
"Axis Pistols" - Still
"Geman Pistols and Holsters 1934 / 1945, Vol. 1" - Lt. Col. RD Whittington (the only one to make mention of it, he refers to the magazine safety being "omitted at some point during the occupation")

Perhaps another member can shed some light on this?

 

[Darwin]

Mike,

I have four but the other three are earlier than the 80490a I mentioned above. All are drilled for the pin.

 

[jacobtowne]

I have a M1922 SN 51171A with magazine disconnect safety. It also has some pretty homely checkered wooden grips. Anyone know when they discontinued the hard rubber grips? (They were hard rubber, right?)
Mine also came with (according to seller) an arsenal cut-down P-38 holster. The modifications to the holster appear professionally done, although I can't imagine why the Germans would have done this.
On the back of the holster are stamped -- DLH 194? (last digit obscured) and WaA841. I'm pretty sure it's an 8, but could be a 6.

 

[Darwin]

I can't tell you anything about the holster. Can you provide pics? The wood grip panels were introduced fairly early and are quite common. Two of mine have the wood grip panels. The other types of grip panels found on German marked FN 1922's are made of Bakelite, also introduced very shortly after the German occupation. Prior to the German occupation, the grip panels were made of compressed animal horn. As far as I am aware, rubber was never used to produce grip panels.

 

[jacobtowne]

Any idea why they changed from Bakelite to wood?
Checked the Proofhouse website, and found references to neither DLH nor WaA831. Seems to me there is another source or listing of makers initials and codes, but I can't remember where.

 

[Darwin]

Sorry, I don't know.

 

[Fritz]

To the mag safety dicussion here some data on FN 10/22 pistols from my collection:

# 64240 WaA 613 9mmk with mag safety
# 76178 WaA 613 9mmk with mag safety
# 289224 WaA 613 9mmk with mag safety
# 46719 WaA 103 7,65 with mag safety
# 90606 WaA 140 7,65 with mag safety
# 83773a WaA 140 7,65 without mag safety !!!
# 4883c WaA 140 7,65 without mag safety
# 9089c E/N 7,65 without mag safety

Fritz

 

[mas]

Dear Fritz,

On your pistol s/n 83773a, was the mag safety simply left out during assembly, or was the frame not even drilled for it's installation. You'll need to pull the grip panels off to tell for certain, if it is not too much trouble to ask.

Regards

Mike

 

[Fritz]

Mike,

you are right with your opinion on pistol # 83773a, the frame is drilled for a mag safe installation.

Fritz

 

[mas]

Thank you, Fritz, for taking the time to look. When they decided to eliminate the mag safeties from the M1922, it initially appears that they simply omitted installing the necessary parts, then later did away with the operation of drilling the frame altogether. I'm just trying to get an idea of when this occurred.

Mike

 

[jacobtowne]

Darwin:
I think I had the numbers and letters incorrect. I discovered a website in Denmark that has a pretty comprehensive listing of German ordnance codes and manufacturers stamps. There is no WaA841, but WaA641 is listed, and the DLH is actually DLU. These letters, according to the site, are for the company E. Luneschloss in Solingen, who made P-08 holsters in 1941. The ordnance inspector's code is 641.
The site is claus.espeholt.dk/mediearkiv/WAAE.pdf